Morning Report: Pick a Side

Submitted by occupation blog on

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One choice comment from our new friend, Lemony Snicket:

“Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending,” Snicket writes.

 http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2011/1019/Lemony-Snicket-releases-Thirteen-Observations-on-Occupy-Wall-Street

And from Doyle Mc Manus of the LA Times:

“At this point, most of the Occupy Wall Street folks don't appear to want anything to do with Obama, or any other officeholder, for that matter.

"’We don't want to associate with politicians because that would just divide people,’  Sonia Silbert, one of the coordinators of Washington's protests, told me. ‘I'm not surprised that the Obama campaign is trying to ride this thing. But if we went in that direction, that would be the end of the moment, right there . . . '

“What's remarkable, though, is how anxious the Obama campaign appears to be to get on the protesters' good side.”

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus-obama-occupy-20111020,0,5599322.column

So true, Mr. Mc Manus. And thanks to your source for pointing out the obvious. No, we don't intend to end the Occupation Movement for the benefit of any political entity or oganization that sees this as a recruiting depot. We will continue to develop a framework for the future of the organization with an eye towards bringing all of the occupied areas together as one. More on this subject later.

Fox News has published a piece about similarities between the Occupation Movement and the Tea Party. We'll wait for comments on this one. For what it's worth:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/10/19/occupy-wall-street-tea-par...


13 Comments

Republicans are the ENEMIES of humanity !

Submitted by Corporal Thing A. on

You assholes will continue to let the Republicans SCREW  you  and then complain about the lack of lube .


GET THIS: REPUBLICANS will ALWAYS screw you ! They Have no morals !


Individual Democrats may be dumb or dastardly, but ALL Republicans are dirtbags.

Corporal Thing A. 'Civilizationalist' 

Well said.

Submitted by ArsenicAlyss on

Bipartisanship is dead, so screw partisanship over together.

One of the things that I like about this movement is that we haven't gotten mired down in red/blue, Dem/Rep, liberal/conservative stuff. Let's keep it that way.

I will find a way or make one. DIY or die. Occupy reality.

This movement will have many

Submitted by lizsavage on

This movement will have many trying to co-opt it or push their own agenda's. All we can do is continue to work on what we have been doing, and no fall into the trap of deciept many are trying to build. I see a lot of wonderful things being accomplished, and I hope more people get truly involved and help to make a difference.

My words represent myself and not Occupy Los Angeles. @lizsavage on Twitter

We are now a convenient PROP and BACKDROP for users...

Submitted by maryjanie on

Amazing how when one becomes POPULAR, suddenly 'new friends' congregate, compliment and appear to be oh so close and supportive... to get some shine off of the publicity and goodness that shines INSIDE OF OCCUPIERS' good works.

Many come to visit = tourists & the curious having heard the news and knowing we are close by and they can walk thru even w/o 'tours' to help understand what occupiers are about/ do/ and how these folks dedicate their lives to be and do and continue....

Many come to visit and then tell others they have been as close to the news-worthy and even hope their picture is taken ....or take a picture to show they too have participated. Some do join even temporarily.

Many more just come by 1x and look around, and tell their friends about that.
More are just watching TV or videos and want to know but dare not come down fearing violence or personal exposure.

What is helpful to both parties, Occupiers and Visitors alike, is that the proximity rubs off. And some of the good-will-idealistic-processes are experienced first hand by visitors too. And as OLA is used as a backdrop to the already rich-or-famous or-trying-to-be-even-more-so in the Occupied Areas Together, the proximity to those who have 'made it" are "notorious"or "famous" are also included in the Show, visitors to show their own personal PR stuff with us, we to have them closer than in our previous lives.

The rub is often both ways, the famous making Occupiers look even better and now "acceptable" because if a notable movie type shows up, then that PR means we too are now more 'main streamed' than before they came by.

No harm, no hard feelings, just noticing that "at the beginning.." as in all initiations and starts there is barren land and courageous people forming groups and trying to find their ways together to be effective and active. After the limelight arrives, it is a very different story/ scene. Just notice the differences.

No problem with fame arriving here. No problem with exposure to all media, even the critically negative ones either, because that is a point for later CLARIFICATION and discussion - and exposing those who USE occupiers for their own claims to stoopid superiority - or so they hope - to look superior but do look stupider often enough in trying to be one up to OLAers.

Just know that the background is more important than the foreground, often, while it is not noticed in full awareness. The back is feeding the front, the famous who come to momentarily hang-out, to look good to themselves and their fans, and who want to appear supportive NOW, tho not before when OLA was a start up, are not the front they want to be. Or only for a moment and then not.

OK. We're just noticing how we too are used.... and using them too to make us look acceptable, loved, and approved of finally. But....We dont NEED THAT APPROVAL or association though, so dont mistaken the applause that is now louder and coming - for anything that lasts past the elites' arrival and departure. After that kleig light is turned off or turned elsewhere, and we will still be HERE, OCCUPYING IN ANY WAY, EVEN THE WAY WE ARE NOW.

nice to be noticed tho....for this moment, and another, but that view not necessary to the MOVEMENT. We are not a protest but we are a movement, already ! Notice this ! We are MOVING and CHANGING all the time before and after and now too....

Occupy LA:  At least the

Submitted by Err1c0 on

Occupy LA:  At least the “Lollipop Guild” unionists had rythm.

The date was 10/20/2011.  Just to position my impression precisely in time.

The "General Assembly" started promptly at 7:30 as announced.  Almost 3 hours 
after that, it fizzled down, without having arrived at the promised "Open Mic" part.

 It was surreal, eerie, and tragic, had it not been in a way ridiculous, preposterous and hilarious.  They had (at some point, somewhere, by somebody) agreed on a format they claim was started by the "indignados" in Madrid: to shout "Open MIc" and repeat as a way to broadcast what people had to say without using microphones:  people would use short phrases, no more than 3 or 4 words long, and then stop (or the "moderators" would stop THEM) and the audience would echo.

-"Hello",

Audience: "Hello"

-My name is Juan.

Audience: "my name is Juan".
-“I want to propose;”

Audience: "I want to propose”...

You get the idea.  It was a Stalinist's wet dream: to control public speech by enforcing a format that self-ridicules, distorts and demeans even the most sublime, inspired and well-meaning opinion.

             Imagine Lincoln's Gettysburg Address given in such a format!  It was worse than the parody of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address in Power Point.


It went on with all the business of committee after committee, with 4 (4 emphasized in sign language) questions, and 3 (Three) rebuttals, while a homeless man, outfitted with a colorful headgear topped with an empty box of take-home rice put things in context announcing aloud: “I second your third proposal”

Fortunately, there were two interventions that managed to rise from the corset of the two-bit-at-a-time (with repetition) style of –shall we call it?- discourse: a homeless man inviting the whole encampment to a breakfast in Skid Row, to highlight the natural solidarity of the two phenomena, and a speaker who proposed teams of people to help foreclosed homeowners intent in resisting the eviction from their homes.

The worst part was to see how people accepted the format by complying with it.  Next to it, the bureaucratization and latent authoritarianism implicit in the rigid methodology and the rigid bureaucracy 
already set up to enforce it.  You could not just raise your hand and be logged on to speak; there were "stackers" at each side to register your request to speak; and "moderators" in charge of ensuring that the person allowed to speak complied with "the process" and even the call to "Mic check", nay the shout, parroted by the multitude to keep the speakers in check, should they stray from topic.

We are doomed! If this is the revolution of minds and spirits, Wall Street can 
safely laugh its way to the bank. If Comedy Central, or worse, Fox News had a camera crew onsite, they would have gotten more material to discredit the movement than 100 hours of Glenn Beck.


             Wow! Old Trotsky, who knew a thing or two about revolutions, had written 70 years ago: "not only conditions are ripe for revolution, they are starting to decompose." We are there.


Hey Malatheory (LOL)

Submitted by LovingFighter on

I was there.  I disagree.  GAs are fine (they may need a little tweaking but it's certainly not as bad as you make them seem.  And the People's Mic is not always used.  Sometimes they have the microphone).  Your thing about Stalin.........I have no idea how you get from A to C.  Where's B???  You say the people's mic = control of public speech.  Where's your reasoning?  You can't just say what you feel like.  Explain your critique.  My guess is you can't.  Your problem is with the way you understand reality (I'm guessing you're a Malatesta fan??? That explains a lot).  Long story short, you want the impossible to be possible: perfect democracy within state society.  Newsflash!  We still live under the repression of the State!  As such, we won't be able to have the kind of democracy that you wish for until we get rid of the force pushing down on us.  A "more democratic" GA won't take us to the revolution, so don't act like it's the end of the world.  The new world won't be within the GA.  The new world-if there is one-will be everywhere.  We need to create it.   A Perfect (with a Capital "p") GA will not be possible in our times (or maybe ever), but this doesn't mean we should just fold up the tents and leave just because we can't be "pure."  Fuck purity! To hell with the puritans!

A la mierda con la mala teoria!

not very 'loving' but a mean fighter above this says.....

Submitted by maryjanie on

"You can't just say what you feel like. Explain your critique. My guess is you can't. Your problem is with the way you understand reality"

That writing is intended to personally insult and demean the prior writer and views ? huh? and this is called change ? or progress ? or equality or freedom of speech/ thought ? huh ? Is that meant to help or what can be useful now,or the WAY to live together especially at OLA or even the website?

Seems that openness to all present is not often or always happening. Yet, such behaviors HAVE BEEN displayed with some good facilitators I've seen at some committees, or meetings, even when they pushing their own agendas as well.

But these enlightened folk do not cut out, disparage or put down others who speak - even when others are diverging from the issue at hand. Anyone can write on website. Which may be that they are NOT OLAers but visitors, tourists, or those looking for a place to be superior to someone else, anyone else.

Or if they are on site often enough to Occupy anything or even the idea used at OLA, then there are differences that need to be revealed.

PLEASE...do not DEMEAN, INSULT, DISCOUNT OR PUT DOWN any one else, no matter what you personally do not like, disagree or think is wrong or that only you are Right or righteous.

That is the Old Ways 'we' at this moment in time are trying desperately to IMPROVE upon. A description or observation and write up on website is just that. A view, an experience, a sharing, even if not all fun and smiles and not "only positive" as is MANDATORY by some fake attemptors to paint everything in one color/mode. Not all is good and moving forward. And not all that is set up cant be helped and improved either.

All we do takes time, takes caring input, takes patience and takes WORKING TOGETHER, not being mean and talking down to anyone.

Try this, you too might like the process - even if it’s frustrating at times or even often.

Not my intention

Submitted by LovingFighter on

 

I didn't mean to come off as mean, Maryjanie.  If this is the view most people have of my post and/or posts then I apologize.  I sincerely did not mean it personally.  I'm not attacking him on a personal level.  I didn't call him any names.  I'm attacking him at a theoretical level, and I do this because I think it's an important debate to have.  This is of great importance to this movement.  The movement needs to have a coherent understanding of the world.  The world is complicated, and one can't understand it without studying.  People on this website say things without backing them up, and personally I think this is cheap.  If you have a critique of the movement, then try to articulate yourself.  We need to hear a good critique rather than just phrases anyone can say.  I'm on here a lot and I try to contribute in this way.

I still don't think I attacked him personally.  I do admit that I was poking fun at him a bit, but this certainly does not count as putting him down.  Or does it?  I don't know.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But you know what?  Thanks for your input.  I'll try to control myself.  But hey, if you think this is bad, then maybe you haven't seen some of the worst ones on here.  I won't mention any names, but I'm "light" compared to some.  I hope you're letting them have it too!

 

glad when we can improve our writings here

Submitted by maryjanie on

thanks for waking up and acknowledging that it was not as lovin as you may want to be/ appear and apology is always good when sincere.... when you write "I sincerely did not mean it personally. I'm not attacking him on a personal level...." I would read those words as personal as well as whatever else....

while you may be nicer than some you've read, it is not a comparative state of affairs but one in which we each decide we DONT HAVE TO LIKE each other all the time or any time, but we have to hear or ignore some and discuss and argue with others, - and all that happens to CLARIFY and RESPOND without the interjection of put-downs and slights. It's also called "RESPECT' and acceptance, as is possible.

ideas should differ and be expressed in all sorts of ways and dialects and clever ways, not just be agreed and confirming and obeying PC rules either.

thanks for recognizing what I perceived was not helpful to OUR cause together here...and I see /read /know it occurs everywhere cuz courtesy and respect is not the most common way for many, not all.

Change means doing things better than before...for each and all and OLA too. again, thanks for being upfront with thinking this thru.

; )

Submitted by LovingFighter on

I try to be as rational as I can.  Constructive criticism always helps one improve.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Though I do have to point out that what Errico said is playing out on a grander scale on the ground.  The poster known as Nevada has been interrupting the GAs shouting over people solely because they have decided to use the people's mic rather than the microphone.  Tonight it got a little heated.  There are others there that are also flipping out about the people's mic and are acting like the facilitators are authoritarians, when in fact it is they who don't have a clear idea of what authoritarianism really is.  These people are just being disruptive.  Some are saying they are agent provocateurs.  People like Nevada and Errico are just acusing people of wanting to control everyone's thought by making them repeat what they say.  This is just silly.  It is clear that they don't know what they are talking about, but the irritating part is that they are influencing some at the GAs and they are also disruptive.  It's better to deal with them here rather than on the ground.  At least here they don't disrupt the democratic process.  In any case, I'll try to deal with them in a more serious manner, if at all.

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