Is student loan debt like slavery?

Submitted by val2r90250 on

Forums: 

Hello I am a new member of the occupy la website, I have very strong feelings for the movement becuase I have been affected by the student loan debt  and the forclousre of my family's home. I was surfing online to read articles about student loan debt and how recent grads are dealing with the pressures of not being able to pay. One of the the top search results was a blog about how student debt is not like slavery. I was curiuos about their point of view and read the blog and the many responses to the blog. The main blogger had a few valid points that I would agree on but as a whole it seemed very one sided and lack of any research on the point of view of the protester that claims student debt is like slavery. I made a comment about that and it was promptly deleted. For a long time I have remained quiet on my views on student loan debt in fear of being repramaned. I am quiet no more.

This is the blog that inspired me to write http://overflowingbrain.com/2011/10/17/why-student-loans-are-not-slavery/

The following is what I would have responded to the blog...

 

It’s not nice at all to call the recent grads that are struggling and wish for student debt forgiveness whinny, bitches, or ignorant. You don’t know what their story is about. When you say oh well they got themselves into a lifestyle debt and that’s why they complain about not being able to balance, is true for some but not all. All graduates that get their degree and strive to better themselves should not be put down. Getting a degree is an accomplishment. I agree that you should pay back your student loan. Paying back is the right thing to do and shows that yes you should keep your promises and so forth.

 

            I believe the American ideology (the American dream) has all the blame to why students are so angry about outrageous student debt. Our country promises that if you go to college and pursue a higher education then you will get a great paying job and be happy. Yeah you will have some student debt but its okay because you will have a good job that will help pay it back. Invest in yourself and reap the blessings. This idea has come true for some; I would say good amounts of people are satisfied with the outcome.  Kids are taught that if you go to college you will have a good paying job, work at a place you love, get married, have kids, have a house, and retire happy knowing you have lived the life you always wanted.

 

            So kids work hard at school make the grades, and they are taught oh they should go to the best schools. The tuition costs are high but there’s more chances getting a job if you go to a prestigious school right? All these thoughts go through a teenager’s head. Oh yeah, wait you wonder why a teenager from high school didn’t think about the huge amount of debt they will have?

 

            Maybe some went to community college because it’s hard to get in any college these days. They work so hard to transfer to a college of their dreams because who is to tell them oh well you shouldn’t go to Harvard because your poor and you won’t be able to afford it and the debt will suck the life out of you. Maybe some chose to go to the best school in there line of work because a prestigious school will get them a better job then a cheaper school that won’t help them at all. Maybe some kids learn there’s no way in hell they can find a decent job without going to college and getting bachelors in something.

 

            Then the kids go to college work their asses off and finally they graduate. A majority of these kids come from middle class and even poor families because they think that just maybe they can have a chance to better themselves and help their family. They graduate and BOOM!!!! There’s no jobs….the grad gets hurt or really sick now there’s medical bills for the grad with no health insurance. Oh well that’s life right? The life of an adult is full of surprises…wait a sec, what?... Their poor family lost their home and now the family has to split up in order to survive. The student just graduated and they are knee deep in debt already with no job. In order to survive the student takes a job at a fast food restaurant lying on his application that he has only high school education otherwise he would not be hired because he is too qualified. The student loan payments come in and the bill is double what he makes sometimes triple. Negotiations with the bank is futile, they just want their money they don’t care how you get, I believe the loans should be paid back after all he did borrow it and graduated.  He makes payments but not enough to please the banks. The loan defaults and now the student has to pay back even more then what he borrowed.

 

            Who is to be blamed? Culture? The banks? The student? You have portrayed the recent grads as whinny bratty kids. I have yet to read a post on the opinion of the recent grad that believes the student debt is slavery. Why would he say it’s like slavery? Is the recent grad oppressed? Maybe. Can he get married? Probably not (no money for ring, certificate, ceremony, financial stability.), can he buy a house? Nope, can he save money at all? Right now no!! Why does the grad believe it’s like slavery? I believe slavery is a word too severe to use. But there is a problem here; America is not how it used to be. These recent grads have to suffer and delay living because of our economy. Grads have to settle and make do for now and suffer with the thought oh I just have another 20 years and I’m free.

 

            Education should be free and not limited to those who only have money or accept the thought of paying back for 20 years or not going to college at all because of the costs. Ask yourselves why is this grad saying it’s like slavery? Maybe it’s a metaphor for their suffering or a cry for mercy. The definition of oppression is the unjust, burdensome, cruel exercise of power. The act of being weighed down body and soul. These grads that have no job or a poorly paying job have no money and yet the banks oppress the grad and family with their student loans. The grad should have known what they got themselves into; they should have gone to a cheaper school. Who is to tell this citizen of the United States of America they can’t go to the best school? Maybe we should make it easier on everybody, the poor should only go to the cheaper schools and the rich (you know the ones that can actually pay for school or at least pay back loans if they can’t get a job) should go to the private colleges and the best universities. There are a few definitions for slavery here is one slavery: N,1. (Law) the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune. The person part doesn’t necessarily mean a person it could be a company such as a bank enforcing student loans, causing hardship and controlling the inability for the grad to pursue a healthy life, liberty, and fortune. Is student loan debt like slavery? I suggest you ask a recent grad that is struggling if it is.

 

 

 

Yes, student loans are a form of slavery

Submitted by Antagon-X on

The main problem is that unfortunately, education has become a matter of business, therefore banks have been part of it. I remember back in 2002 a bank was issuing credit cards to students at UC Irvine. Everyone who wanted a credit card was receiving one. Banks know that student need money so they provide their "magic tool" for people to get in debt early in their lives. Student loans used to be affordable and there were jobs in the market.

Today, things are very different. Student loans are four times higher than they were in the 70's, the job market has been reduced and it will continue to shrink.

Did you know that Foxxconn (the company that makes iPhones and iPads) will replace one million workers with robots within the next three years?

 

 

I disagree.

Submitted by Supersean on

Student loans are not a form of slavery. Slavery is still quite real in this world and you minimize that reality by employing a poor comparison.

One does not CHOOSE to be a slave. No one is forced into student loan debt.

Justice4all's picture

I dont not agree with how you framed your response

Submitted by Justice4all on

this was a great topic and well written but no student loans are more similar to indentured servants. after the slaves were freed and jim crow laws of the south made sure freed slaves couldnt find work vote or get educated, ex slave owners went to their ex slaves and said *sarcastic voice* "well since you cant find work why dont you come work for me on my plantation, you know the place where i raped your wife and daughters and the place where u never made a penny and will never make another penny again."

sadly some ex slaves were forced into indentured servatidue becasue of outlandish circumstances. i was forced into indentured servatitude becasue of my student loans.. FYI bankruptcy protects you against all forms of debt except STUDENT DEBT. the government is an ex slave owner and all us with college degrees are the ex slaves trying to find freedom.

"IF you think in terms of a year, plant a seed, if in terms of ten years, plant trees, if in terms of 100 years, teach the people" -Confucius


WE MUST TEACH THE PEOPLE!

Justice4all's picture

I dont not agree with how you framed your response

Submitted by Justice4all on

this was a great topic and well written but no student loans are more similar to indentured servants. after the slaves were freed and jim crow laws of the south made sure freed slaves couldnt find work vote or get educated, ex slave owners went to their ex slaves and said *sarcastic voice* "well since you cant find work why dont you come work for me on my plantation, you know the place where i raped your wife and daughters and the place where u never made a penny and will never make another penny again."

sadly some ex slaves were forced into indentured servatidue becasue of outlandish circumstances. i was forced into indentured servatitude becasue of my student loans.. FYI bankruptcy protects you against all forms of debt except STUDENT DEBT. the government is an ex slave owner and all us with college degrees are the ex slaves trying to find freedom.

"IF you think in terms of a year, plant a seed, if in terms of ten years, plant trees, if in terms of 100 years, teach the people" -Confucius


WE MUST TEACH THE PEOPLE!

Justice4all's picture

STUDENT LOANS CREATE INDENTURED SERVANTS!

Submitted by Justice4all on

Very Well written and im glad you have joined the community of fellow occupiers! check out occupycolleges.org and go like occupy student debt on FACEBOOK their you will find many many stories of others who share in your hurt. Solidarity from Los Angeles.

"IF you think in terms of a year, plant a seed, if in terms of ten years, plant trees, if in terms of 100 years, teach the people" -Confucius


WE MUST TEACH THE PEOPLE!

So what's the answer here?

Submitted by Supersean on

I have a cousin, recently graduated and living in NYC, who is part of the OWS working group on this issue. We've had many discussions on the topic and came to the conclusion that educating HS seniors and their parents on the reality of student loans was a good way forward.

If more college-bound kids and their families knew the real deal they'd think twice about incurring this crippling debt. The problem is that their teachers and counselors are telling them something else that may have been true when they went to college but is no longer the reality in the new cost-push inflated higher education game.

Sue Basko's picture

higher education should be free

Submitted by Sue Basko on

Whether student loan debt can be analogized to slavery is not the question.  The question is if student loan debt is ruining the lives of a whole set of people, and the answer is YES. Education is important and we in the US should be able to get higher education for FREE, just as happens in most other major nations.  Many other nations also pay for their students to go overseas for a year internship.

 WHAT also happens when education is free is that not everyone needs to pursue it. For example, in Australia, where university is free, many choose not to go, but to instead pursue the work they are best at, which may be a trade or skill. 

In the US, we have been led to believe that a college degree is mandatory for a job.  IN fact, many of the most successful people did not finish college, and many successful people did not go to college at all, or just went a bit, and learned on the job.

Education should and COULD BE FREE if we re-prioritized and did not spend money on wars and prisons.  Many people think it is fine to spend $40,000 per year to keep a man in prison, but they would scream if that man were out and free and given tuition, room and board of $40,000.

It is a matter of values and priorities.  

Sue Basko, Lawyer

OCCUPY PEACE - Legal Info on How to Hold a Peaceful Protest or Occupation

 

I really hope education should free

Submitted by wlakubiz on

I strongly agree that education was made free, and can be financed by the state. I think the state can provide the distribution of subsidies to education for its citizens. benefits for the country is certainly a student will substitute the successor to the nation, many smart people make a lot of creative ideas, which certainly also going to build the nation itself so that the nation would be advanced.

Is student loan debt like slavery?

Submitted by laki881 on

I do not believe student loans are slavery.  I do believe that everyone should have higher education available to them at a reasonable cost.  I think some students take out student loans for higher-priced institutions which could have been avoided by obtaining an equivalent education at a less expensive school.  When taking out student loans, students should consider future job possibilities and how much you should borrow based on future potential income.

Student Debt, Slavery or Not?

Submitted by referpatients on

The are always two sides of this question. And the answer has been depending to the one who actually had an experience about it. Nevetheless, it still better to be impartial and take each other side's seriously. What I think is that anything can be compromised and can be discussed if the need arises.

Student debt can be minimized by making the right choice

Submitted by mtbinary on

I realize that people want the best education possible. To do that, you attend four year universities and then press on to post graduate studies.

On some level, college education is already subsidized. SOMEBODY has to pay for the rest. My step-son attended a JC for his first two years and got his Bachelors Degree with only $30K in debt. (not much more than car payment) Going to a four year college is a CHOICE, not forced servitude. My Mortgage Website

I have a niece who is nearing 30. She's barely held a real job and is milking education and student loans to hang around Berkely for as long as she can manage. To hear her cry about her student loans makes me want to puke. She's USING the system and begging for relief out the other side of her mouth. Slavery is a very poor metaphor....

Like everything else in America, there are people who make responsible, intelligent choices and others who use and abuse every entitltement they can lay hands on. It is those people who are taxing the system and diving up costs. I wish Occupy had a mechanism for exposing and rooting out the enablers. (to me, enablers = Government representatives)

Student loan

Submitted by KristyC on

 

 

 

I agree with you.The thing that students have to remember is that "Only bite what you can chew!!" So going to a higher priced university rather than a state owned university would be having its effects, when they have to repay their student loans.Students and their parents too should use common sense when evaluating which college to attend in terms of affordability and the amount of debt that would be incurred.Read more here:cash advance

 

 

 

student loans

Submitted by alexander on

Schools have all become a big business, and it's about time that they admit to the fact. There is no reason why school should cost so much money except that some fat cats are getting rich off of the student loans.

Keith.H's picture

Slavery as an anology/why education

Submitted by Keith.H on

First, slavery has been used as analogy and/or metophore for many things of an oppresive nature for a long time. This is especially true in places where slavery did exist (and does in history) and no longer does is practice. Wether or not the term is appropriate to use as an analogy is a difficult question to answer, as language is always changing. What the term means to one person doesn't hold true for an other and using a dictionary is of no help, as it will give you multiple definitions of which most are in regular use, which draw no clear distinctions.

So, while I don't wish to have a purly semantic debate, I will give my own subjective response knowing full well that this could continue such a debate. I don't like to use the term slavery to talk about what happens in our society(western) today, unless reffering to people who are kept in complete servitude, bondage, and are in practice owned by other people. That is to say they are deprived of all choice when matters of their labor and/or liberty are decided, or face death or detention for refusing to comply with those choices. There are some people in our society today that do face those situations.

While I completly understand the need for higher education today is great, you are still given a choice as to wheter or not you wish to obtain it and wheter you will do so on credit. If you are to make the argument that higher education is necassary to obtain the neccasities of life (which are themselves debatable, but no doubt are thought of when determining wages) I think you could have alot of grounds socially (which I will address next) but would find it impossible to prove definitivly in our nation, the U.S., as it is structured today. However, I don't have any reservations with and do regularly refer to student debt as indentured servitude, and to fully explain why here I don't think is necassary.

So this brings me to my next point. Why do we fund education at all, and why do we pay the entire cost of primary and secondary education with taxes, but not higher education? Well, I feel I've already been writing at length, and given this topic is huge and still activly being debated, both by the electorate and our elected officals I will simply give my veiw and be brief in doing so. Public education is done for the public good and is not necassarily meant to give everyone an equal start in adult life(e.g. decent income), but is rather, to give society a better informed and functioning citizenry. However, in practice this creates (or helps to reinforce) classes with real and stark divisions of both knowledge and skill.

A lot of societies in the industrialized world consider selective public eduation unacceptable and thus provide university education to all citizens using tax revenue. This doesn't mean those societies are without educational problems and certainly they are not classless. But on the whole they are much more knowledgeable, per capita, about a bround range of subjects of study. This has been verified by numbers of studies, including ones conducted by the U.N.

What I'm attempting to explain is that you can't talk about the availablity, and often quality, of education without talking about class (or if you did you wouldn't sound very knowledgeable, i.e. you would sound like a bad politician). In my and many others' opinion we have such poor access to and, on the whole, quality of education in the United States because we no longer talk about class (once again, on the whole). Student debt is a way of trying to pretend or education is free while still enforcing class distintions. I have student debt I will not soon, and may never be able to pay. It forces me into a lower class. Simply put, college should be paid for by the public, and of course we have the money to pay for it, it is only a matter of priorities.

TheGoodSamaritanCommunityCenter.com's picture

Constitutional Crisis

Submitted by TheGoodSamarita... on


Please go to this website to sign this petition to Obama to solve the Student loan default Crisis because of its violation of the constitution debt slavery clause.: Go to this link to put your name on this petition to hold politicians accountable to their lack of oversite of the Student Loan Providers in the last 40 years. Go to this link:http://wh.gov/QBjW

RobertLeeRE

hello there!

Submitted by SallyT on

Great post dude!Scientists from the University of California, LA, found in a recent study of freshman students that price is a huge factor in university selection. It should be. Tuition is going up along with debt loads and unemployment for recent grads. Get a cash advance to pay for your extra school costs.

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