Advice from a french protester! Anti-capitalism is an error for the movement

Submitted by REALDEMOCRACY on

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Hello, I'd like to say something that will probably be beneficial to all protest movements in the world. I talk to all the movements, it is because there are a lot of similar situations across the globe. 
So I would like to begin by the movement "Occupy Wall Street", this movement was launched by an anti-consumerist alternative magazine. This movement, I think, is clearly anti-capitalist as it fights against banks and oligarchies of the economy. 
I think it's a mistake, it's not the financial masters or the economic system that must be fought in the popular movements. It's first the political leaders, because they allowed this unjust system. Indeed, if people do not revolt despite all the injustices in society, it is because they believe they are living in a democracy, they think they live in a just and necessary political system. And so, the problem is political, first, as the people follow the system in which they are told to believe is fair. In our societies the political and economic systems are closely linked thru: mass corruption and conflicts of interest 
We should not be mistaken. If finance and economics seem to dominate the world today, it is with the permission and assistance of governments over time. Without the approval of the governments' so-called "democracy", it would not happen. Thus, you can't fight solely against banks and finance: people already know banks are not on their side, people know the injustice of our economic system, yet they do not rebel. Because for them it would be inconsistent with our "democracies". Indeed, if the democratic system allows for the economic system, so what legitimacy do we have to fight against global finance, which is somehow authorized by democratic governments.As you can see, we do not live in a democracy, the people have no power, and this is where we must act. 
Movements which, moreover, appear clearly anti-capitalist, will remain doomed to marginalization in view of the meaning of "communism" to the extreme majority of people. 

We must give the solutions, and not only focus on the problems. One of the solutions Spanish activists have proposed with the emerging movement of "indignados" is real democracy. In delegitimizing our political systems, and creating a real democracy, people can then eliminate capitalism or global finance if they wish. 

The Spaniards made other mistakes in the indignados movement, including writing "manifestos" similar to those created by political parties. We must not make propostition on social or economic issues. To bring everyone together, we must focus on criticizing the political system (with all bad consequences that oligarchies create), and we must emergence an alternative: real democracy. Once we live in a democracy, then we can solve all problems through dialogue and transparency.

Well here's the problem

Submitted by Fallout2man on

Well here's the problem "REALDEMOCRACY" we've been segregated as a people by our political leaders into partisan camps.

Right now a sizeable chunk of the population is at war with itself over ideology. To work against that is extremely difficult and it requires first and foremost constant vigilance to remain non-partisan.

If we simply targeted politicians, or even proposed specific reforms we would be torn apart by the same partisan war that congress is caught up in right now. People have been so segregated from being able to have an honest debate and discussion about good ideas because for years they've been born, bred and raised to fear certain sound bytes and react like an attack-dog on call when they hear them.

This sort of conditioning has happened to Americans all over and it's another system of control that money has leveraged over us.

By manipulating politics right now there is little legitimate avenue to do that directly by engaging the big two parties. Any attempt to do so will be seen as partisan and cause the entire movement to disintegrate. The media is now waiting like a hungry shark circling its prey to see what bone it can pick to tear the entire movement apart.

I do think we definitely need to have achievable goals but those may need to come much later. Because first we have to get people to un-plug and let go of political baggage before an honest debate of ideas can take place.

Although I personally like the idea of non-partisan elections reform but that's just my own pet theory. Right now first and foremost solidarity between these disparate groups must be achieved on a deeper, emotional level. That's how we work around partisan programming and that's how we can eventually get everyone to the table to talk about real reforms.

Once we get everyone to trust that the other isn't an evil, baby-eating spawn of satan, a lot of good work can be done! ;)

Not about ideological battles / It's about Economic Injustice

Submitted by danielbrummel on

Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Los Angeles are NOT nonviolent demonstrations about IDEOLOGY (which we all have different perspectives on), they are nonviolent demonstrations about ECONOMIC JUSTICE.  This is not a leftist movement, it is a unified 99% people's movement to address the rampant economic inequality fostered by the "inverted totalitarianism" that the corporations have exacted upon the American people.

¡¡¡ EL PUEBLO UNIDO JAMÁS SERÁ VENCIDO !!!

FIRST THEY IGNORE US, THEN THEY LAUGH AT US, THEN THEY FIGHT US, THEN WE WIN

The Politicians are the Side Effect, Not the Cause

Submitted by Ed on

I disagree with REALDEMOCRACY.  The focus should be on the the CAUSE of the problem, and that's not this or that politician or party or government, and whether we disagree, or don't, with them.  In a corporatocracy/plutocracy, the cause is an economic system that concentrates wealth and wealth creation---and the political power that comes with that---in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.  Politicians just heed the call of those who pay to get them elected, and that's not the many.  Call it "anti-capitalist" if you want to, but if that's what this economic system is creating---and obviously it is---then it has to be questioned, and changed. 

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