Occupiers Should Be Activists

Submitted by StevenVincent on

Forums: 

Last night at GA there was a bitter debate about safety issues at the encampment.  A woman proposed that we develop a system of enforcement and there was further angry discussion.  I suggested that perhaps we look at the issue from another angle since the Enforcement approach appeared to be fraught with issues.

I suggested that instead we consider requiring all members of the OLA encampment to be required to participate in a committee or activity every day and that in this way we would build a community (people interacting with a common purpose) of activists rather than a hang out spot.  This suggestion was generally received very well.  I don't know what happened after that because I had to leave.

I'm hoping to find some time to write this up into a full blog posting and proposal sometime soon.

By the way I do not live at OLA but I do come down 3-4 days a week to participate in several committes.

Justice4all's picture

read this article it may help

Submitted by Justice4all on

THis article talks about how other occupations are policing themselves

http://www.3news.co.nz/Occupy-Wall-Street-How-to-police-the-fringe/tabid/417/articleID/232271/Default.aspx

this is activism!!

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/10/8739200-occupy-wall-street-protesters-interrupt-bachmann-speech

"IF you think in terms of a year, plant a seed, if in terms of ten years, plant trees, if in terms of 100 years, teach the people" -Confucius


WE MUST TEACH THE PEOPLE!

Portland Mayor Ordering OccupyPortland to Leave b/c drug-abuse

Submitted by ultrarad on

This is why drug abuse has to be controlled.  Sooner or later, they'll be removed; will the rest of the Occupation?

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/10/142220841/portland-ore-mayor-orders-occupi...

Responsible citizens assembled to petition government for redress are protected by the First Amendment.  If they want to petition for drug legalization, they absolutely can; using drugs is not petitioning government.

 

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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.

There are/were multiple threads on this same topic....

Submitted by tovangar2 on

.. but, I think

OLA Neighbor claims City Council says OLA "threatens violence"

is the only one still active. People have made many good suggestions there re the situation at the camp, so if you're interested in this discussion check over there too.

Constructive Criticism also had some good posts as did

Who should BE at Occupy LA on the lawns in my view

Maybe especially crytomnesiac's reply that contains the immortal line, "(OLA's) gone from being an agile and mobile unit to a slovenly, complacent shanty town." (Mike sure can write)

 

"Virtue can only flourish among equals" - Mary Wollstonecraft 1759-1797

 

alivia's picture

Rants and suggestions

Submitted by alivia on

I must agree with StevenVincent regarding all Occupy LA peeps being part of the Occupy LA movement. If we are to be considered a serious social reform movement and make changes we must show that our dollars count and our voices will be heard.


I do want to say this though. There is a big difference between being Homeless and being a bum. I say this because I have volunteered with people at Occupy LA who are "homeless". I for one am one of them and I do not look (or so I am told do not look) "homeless." Then again, I'm battling the transtional housing program I live in right now because I am not the typical homeless person. So please keep in mind that homeless isn't useless.


 


With that said


Right before I left Friday night I heard this quote and it pissed me off. He said he was trying to get a tent from the Welcome tent and when he was told that he had to go to a GA meeting and participate he said


I don't care about any of that, I just want a tent.


 


This is the kind of attitudes we have to prevent. If you’re not there to be an active part of the 99% then that is not the place for you. That may be harsh but I am battling for a future that does not include fear of being homeless again or even worrying where my next meal will come from. I want a job, I want health insurance, and I want to be pain free. As with many (maybe all) people, it's personal, I want change and disability or not I’m at Occupy LA to do whatever I can to help or support the cause – verbally, physically, virtually or moral support.


 


At every reasonable opportunity I tell people about Occupy LA and I invite people to come down to see it for themselves and let them know we need volunteers. I talk to homeless people, business people, students - whoever I think may be interested and willing to be a genuine part of the occupy movement.


 


This movement is a word of mouth movement. Most media is trying to devalue us. Places such the one I live at is outright threatening people with being fired or kicked out if we participate with the occupy movement - why? Because they are scared. They know that we can make a difference.


 


SO 


Yes, if someone is at Occupy LA they should be an active part of Occupy LA. How do we get more support? The revolution will be social medialized. Facebook, twitter, tumblr, LinkedIn, networking meetings, talk to friends, volunteer etc...


List of non-profits


http://losangeles.citystar.com/mall/non-profit_organization01.html


Ask non-profit organizations to support Occupy LA


 


Tents only go to people who are active in marches or at Occupy LA (volunteer, classes, security) - I've been waiting 3 weeks :/  (I’ll buy my own if necessary) 


 


Badges for Occupy LA and preference for food goes to them? may be a little harsh and I would not want to deny food to anyone but I do believe that Occupy LA peeps should be fed first.


 


 


 

I Occupy because I may be physically limited but I am not dis abled.

I Occupy because everyone should have equal opportunities.

I Occupy because I am not afraid to stand up to greed and corruption

I think the hardest part is

Submitted by invictus99 on

I think the hardest part is that it feels like exploitation when someone is just there to party or get a tent. I am extraordinarily sympathetic to the very bad position a lot of homeless are in, often of no fault of their own. But, this is not a frat party, charity event or homeless shelter. This is a social movement and a protest. If people want something from Occupy LA (like food, water or sheleter) they should at least minimally find it in them to attend a GA and volunteer. Hell, they could even pick up trash/recycling if they really weren't comfortable doing anything else.

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn

 

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audiotruther's picture

You can't require , We must Inspire

Submitted by audiotruther on

Occupiers to be involved. If ppl that are at City Hall all the time , aren't particapting ever., then something is wrong.

Spread the Enthusiasm not the Bureaucracy.

*Also consider ppl have/had a life pre Occupy, so everyone may not be on the same time schedules, so starting Night Actions could  activate more ppl + less free time hanging around at night means less time doing naughty nightly behaviors at camp-

 

 

Mahayana's picture

It's not about a lack of

Submitted by Mahayana on

It's not about a lack of enthusiasm. These certain people that are posing the problems were never there for the Occupy movement in the first place. There are quite a few people there - some homeless, some not, that are just there to mooch, get high and party.  If I was homeless, I'd go there too for the free pizza. These people aren't the problem. It's the ones that aren't there to participate (by participate, I mean pay attention at minimum) AND cause trouble (being obnoxiously drunk/high, violent, intimidating women, stealing, etc...)

If it is possible to boot them out, I say do it. They're only going to continue to scare people off, slow down the momentum of the movement and be the media's focus, reinforcing the negative perception of the Occupy movement.

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves - in their separate, and individual capacities. -Abe

alhs06's picture

Mahayana Spot On!

Submitted by alhs06 on

Mahayana spot on, nicely put! We need commitment & dedication to our protest not an excuse to party!

THIS AIN'T WOODSTOCK!

PROTECT, PROMOTE, PROTEST We are #Occupy We are The 99%

My picture reads

"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."

The 1% philosophy

alivia's picture

Just do not care

Submitted by alivia on

audiotruther. I really wish this was the case. However there are just some people who do not care no matter how much you talk to them and ask them what do you want? What can we do? Their only purpose in life is to get whatever they can for free and do nothing. I've seen this happen attitude at Occupy LA and it is a growing problem. 

 

I've seen a camper pick up a chair that he knew didn't belong to him and when I said something he shrugged and was about to walk off with it anyway until I said even louder who it did belong to. Only then when the reality that he would be caught and was probably thinking thrown out did he drop it. 

 

America in many ways has created a mentality of self-entitlement and isn’t this part of what we are fighting for? But it doesn’t belong solely to the 1%. It is the 1% mentality that inhibits individuals such as these and to themselves think it is ok to take and never give simply because they have a heartbeat.

 

Occupy LA people work extremely hard and I don’t believe it’s fair that people who are out there in the rain, getting shoved, called names, risking their job/sleeping space, camping in the cold and spending their own time campaigning for what they believe in just so that someone else who has done nothing and has no desire to do anything be given the supplies before those who are working…or don’t get any at all because there is none left after the freebies. 

I Occupy because I may be physically limited but I am not dis abled.

I Occupy because everyone should have equal opportunities.

I Occupy because I am not afraid to stand up to greed and corruption

I've said this before & I'm saying it again...

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...it's participating or not, NOT whether one is homeless or not. Occupy LA protesters have the legal right to be on the CH lawn under the Constitutional rights to Free Speech/Assembly ("peaceable assemble to petition the government for redress of grievances") and the concurrent right to be free of harassment while doing so. The City Council Resolution was their acknowledgement of OLA's rights, NOT their "permission".

Non-participants camping on the lawn have no legal right to be there. The Mayor's office admits that,

 "we recognize that a number of the individuals who are on the lawn are not affiliated with the Occupy L.A. protest."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1105-occupy-crime-20111105,0,7765367.story

So why is the Mayor hosting them? Everyone knows who the non-participants are. The Mayor & City Council have no right to swamp OLA with a bunch of non-participants (or infiltrate OLA with undercover agents either, for that matter). Tell the Mayor and City Council to remove their non-participating guests so Occupy LA can get on with with the job they set out to do, have the right to do, in peace and without interference. The removal of the non-participants is the Mayor's and City Council's responsibility. I do not know why they have not fulfilled it yet. They need a written reminder from OLA; a sternly-worded letter (from OLA's legal advisers &/or the ACLU, NLG) followed by a request to the courts for an injunction if they fail to act. OLA needs to be proactive on this and stop the hand-wringing.

For Occupy LA's part, we cannot get sidetracked with activities other than the one that protects us under the Constitution or OLA will get removed too & with just cause. Stay focused people & on track. No excuses. People are counting on us. Don't fail them.

 

"Virtue can only flourish among equals" - Mary Wollstonecraft 1759-1797

cryptomnesiac's picture

I agree. The non-participants

Submitted by cryptomnesiac on

I agree. The non-participants need to go.

That, or we need to pick up and leave them to fend for themselves. After they've gotten themselves arrested (I'd give it less than a week), we can go back and volunteer to clean up the site, and discuss what to do from there.

The movement can't survive with so much bullshit happening. With so much dead weight, we're are NOT a movement at all. We're just a concentrated microcosm of the same fucked up, apathetic, corrupt society, in which some people try in vain to rally self-indulgent and ineffectual people to find some impetus to care about anything.

Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook

Mike, we have every right to compel the Mayor and....

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...the City Council to act. There is no need for us to leave. (It may be a bit sticky trying to return as they will certainly pull out all the stops to try to prevent our return. You can bet they're lawyered up.) I think we need to hold our ground and make the responsible parties be responsible. After all, isn't what this Movement is all about? (It would also allow us to regain our rep w/ the public, our donors & the neighbors and stop CCLA in their tracks, not to mention serve as an example to the other Occupations.)

As for the undercover officers who are constantly on site, they are more than welcome if they identify themselves (wear a "Hello, my name is Joe Smith, LAPD" tag), sign in at the Welcome Tent, come in civvies and leave their guns at the station (we could ask that they limit their numbers to five at any one time). We've got nothing to hide.

Edited to add:

P.S. Mind you, we'd have to obey the law, which BTW is our Code of Conduct. No violence, harrassment, illegal drugs or drinking on site. All smoking kept to the sidewalks. That shouldn't be too hard for us.

 

"Virtue can only flourish among equals" - Mary Wollstonecraft 1759-1797

 

 

We can also be constructive about it...

Submitted by ultrarad on

We should be asking city government for a surge of homeless and addiction outreach resources.  They may be an obstacle to us, but they're still human beings.  We have to be disciplined in order to be effective, but we don't have to forfeit our humanity.

Since the City Council has not had these problems out of sight and out of mind, it might be a good time to nudge them towards working to positive solutions.

We should also be calling on groups that work on homelessness and addiction for intensified outreach.  If possible, involving people they have helped who can speak to people from direct experience.

The homeless and addicted generally lack many options.  We should try to give them more options.  They might be more inclined to not disrupt our occupation if there are better options.

 

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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.

With all due respect to everybody...

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...and I do mean that, the activity you outline, if carried out at City Hall, is not covered under our First Amendment rights.

By all means, do (as an individual) demand more professional services for those who need them. I would hope you've been doing that all along. I have and am (and I'm one of the people who neeeds services). There are also many long-standing and worthwhile organizations one can join to amplify one's voice and provide one with volunteer opportunities. Please, spend part of your day on the Nickel, ask the professionals there, some of whom have been working there for decades, how one can best help them in their efforts.

OLA's job, as part of a Movement, if I'm not mistaken, is to petition the government for redress of grievances, specifically to demand that the government be responsible to and represent all citizens (not just the 1%), bringing our society/economy/environment back into balance, which will be better for everyone. That is what, as I've already said, our Constitutional right to Occupy the public space at City Hall is based on. Nothing else. No other activities.

 

"Virtue can only flourish among equals" - Mary Wollstonecraft 1759-1797

Rancho Larry's picture

YES YES YES YES YES

Submitted by Rancho Larry on

Remain on the lawns under the protection of the First Amendment Peacefully Assembling and making the call for changing the government to deal with the wall street Banksters, and the systemic corruption they have developed over the last 30 years while our folks were working hard and so many others did not have a clue because it was too much trouble to even vote.  Those days are history.  The Jig is Up and the Chips are down, Take this seriously or get outta town.  That is how I see it.

We ALL Love America… We want the broken government fixed…..

;

Rancho Larry

Updates on this idea

Submitted by StevenVincent on

I have been throwing this around with a number of active OLA people in the committees and it seems to be evolving into an effort to devise creative ways to strongly ENCOURAGE committee/activity participation and so build activism and community spirit through co-participation rather than mandating or requiring participation.  A number of ways have been floated to accomplish this.  I will try to post more later when I have time.

Unless you are a very small child,....

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...I expect you to read this thread and the related Forum topic threads (I already took the trouble to name them for you in my first post on this thread) on this same issue to find the answer to your question. 

You could also read lizsavages Blog post from yesterday: "Occupy LA More Vigilant About Safety" and the replies to it. It's here: http://www.occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/1845 or find it by title under "Blogs".

Why dont you just humor us

Submitted by PC on

Why dont you just humor us and answer the question? What, specifically, about "the above" is so objectionable that it would cause you to walk away? Your post doesn't make that clear, which is why two separate people, neither of whom presumably are small children, asked you to clarify.

alhs06's picture

Thanks Rancho Larry

Submitted by alhs06 on

Still cant get it to work!

My picture reads

"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."

The 1% philosophy

alhs06's picture

Thanks Rancho Larry #2

Submitted by alhs06 on

The Evolution of Unchecked Capitalism.

I developed this cartoon about 2 years ago.

My picture reads

"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."

The 1% philosophy

"No Occupation Without Participation"

Submitted by Tony M on

I agree completely that OLA should only be for those who are participating in the movement (and visitors of course). I want to make this a proposal at the GA soon. I think the proposal should follow the rationale that non-participants are not covered under our First Ammendment rights to assemble here with our greivances. That gives us a solid basis to challenge them with.

To paraphrase the slogan from the American Revolution - "No Taxation Without Representation" - I propose we should have our own new slogan:

"No Occupation Without Participation"

We could make signs and put them all over the camp.

Tony (the random Australian from the 'Demands' committee)

cryptomnesiac's picture

Tony M, I think that's a

Submitted by cryptomnesiac on

Tony M, I think that's a catchy slogan, but here's the thing:

I've been watching the GAs since they started at CH. There were arguments, but they were topical. There were complaints about the process, but they fell silent quickly out of consideration (which made the 100% consensus seem more feasible than it ultimately was).

Just as importantly, there were a lot of people in attendance. Those people at the GA, and those who'd eventually set their tents up (again and again) for the night, were one and the same.

Imagine! I mean, it's hard for me to imagine it now.

At least a couple times a week, someone steps up before the assembly, and makes an impassioned speech rebuking the drug use and apathy rampant on the site. People clap, do the embarrassing approval gesture—end of story, right?

Except the people at the GA already care. Most of them are either not high, or hide it better than most there. The people who are apathetic and on drugs are nowhere to be found at the GA, because they are in their tents, being apathetic and doing drugs.

They don't hear it, and they don't care.

There are thefts and assaults what seems like every single day. Volunteers are routinely harassed and threatened. Let's face it, it was never under our control, and now this (partly) organic gathering has taken on the character of Los Angeles' desperation and predation.

I've walked out on meetings that I didn't think addressed immediate issues, withdrawn any pursuit of advocating my own ideas, because I've given up on this camp. Not the cause, but the physical camp. People can address certain issues, but we're overrun with inert bodies and active criminals. Unless we went nuts, and established some kind of fortification, real or figurative, and adopted a vetting process, the thin legitimacy provided by the protests, and the hands-off attitude of the LAPD, will continue to be a magnet for people who can only weigh down or outright harm us. I don't a solution on the horizon for holding this spot. I think it's impractical and harming us collectively.

This is not a new society of our creation. For a large part, we've become wide-eyed tourists in a bad neighborhood that's just coalesced around us. Many of us have become naïve foreigners, full of broad ideals off in the distance, blind to the savvy hustle in front of us.

My suggestion is develop your idea, and float it at camp if you like, but I wouldn't put all my hopes on City Hall.

Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook

Yes, but...

Submitted by StevenVincent on

But I think that we need to find creative ways to ENCOURAGE participation rather than force it.  I do think the path of trying to police problems after they arise is bankrupt.  We need to head off problems through increased cohesion and that comes through co-participation.

 

cryptomnesiac's picture

When the prevailing mood was

Submitted by cryptomnesiac on

When the prevailing mood was devotion to ideals, and raw anger toward the system, I don't believe nudging people toward anything was necessary.

There's no one factor necessarily that can account for the problems, but I can believe that some people were on the fence about participating or partying. They marched, shouted, waved signs—there was a lot of energy in the air. Then they went to the GA, and saw an entire process stymied by even one person blocking something based on the most minute detail.

Can people walking the line be won back? If there's an environment where people are safe, and where the focus is clear(er), the determination will become contagious.

Right now other things are contagious.

Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook

Fex's picture

Protest every day

Submitted by Fex on

Protest every day. Whether that be marching on the financial district or another such event.

I say this here because we shouldn't get completely bogged down in side issues, huge though some may be. Occupy has a purpose and that purpose should never be set aside for anything. Also, I think more large scale protest and demonstration will help with camp safety- in that people will be kept busy, some will find solidarity through working together, and less good people will walk away if the movement is noticeably active.

 

"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal

cryptomnesiac's picture

I'd agree if the "side issues

Submitted by cryptomnesiac on

I'd agree if the "side issues" were an abstract thing, or sticking point for some sort of perfectionism on our parts. Unfortunately, people don't feel safe. People are leaving. Laura from the Housing Committee (IIRC) broke down last night and cast out a litany of complaints, from physical assaults, to the management of resources.

The character of the place has changed, and is no longer amenable to solutions.

Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook

Oh man Mike, have we really lost you?

Submitted by tovangar2 on

"The character of the place has changed, and is no longer amenable to solutions."

I gotta admit that I'm right on the line about the encampment minute-to-minute, but I'm such a Pollyanna, I think there's a solution to anything.

I even think we can stop the globalized criminal class in their tracks and institute a representative government. How delusional is that?

The lawns at City Hall should be a piece of cake.

OMG, if I was Special Envoy to the Middle East for just 24 hours, I'd have that place sorted before lunchtime....


LOL

Walk away?

Submitted by tovangar2 on

From a cop-free, rent-free zone w/ free food? I don't think so.

Some of the nurses walked away because the medical tent was being used as a nest to shoot-up in. Dirty needles everywhere. Are they supposed to deal w/ that at thr risk of their own safety? No. So they left. I don't blame them.

And who's going to guard OLA's tents, etc while they're out marching? The thieves?

We are all saying the same

Submitted by Tony M on

We are all saying the same thing. We have to something urgently. Good people are leaving in droves. The numbers at the GA keep dropping and the atmosphere is becoming more antagonistic. It's a difficult environment to get any reasonable proposal to solving the unity issue through consensus. But some nights are better than others. If we garner support around a good proposal, we might have a hope of pushing it through.

One addition to the idea I stated earlier would be to effectively split the camp in two. We could make the south lawn Occupy territory. The north and west lawns could be for other groups. We negotiate the trading of camp sites between those that are with us on the west and north lawn and then ask (ha - this will be the tough part part) the non-participants to move from the south lawn to the north/west. We consolidate in the south, pull our portapotties from the north and declare food, sanitation, security is for the Occupy camp only. We make the new situation clear to the authorities.

A couple of us drew up a proposed redesign of the encampment...

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...over two weeks ago, which would, as you also suggest, move the non-participants to the North & West lawns and consolidate OLA on the South lawn (although I would actually prefer that the non-participants were gone altogether, for what I hope are by now obvious reasons).

Two groups within OLA seem to be the stumbling blocks re this:

First, are the, to my mind, misguided bleeding-hearts who are seemingly willing to cast aside the Movement's goals in favor of amateur outreach efforts to those who happened to turn up on OLA's doorstep. Some seem to think this effort is the goal of the Movement. Others may just find it easier to dick around on side projects rather than face the enormous task we have set for ourselves. None seem to realize that by engaging in short-term, limitedly-effective charity, any hope for actual justice for all will be lost. (This is just IMHO, they may have other motives which are not apparent to me. Idk. I really don't mean to be offensive here, I'm just fed up)

The second group, using fear-based decision making, cannot see how the non-participants can be shifted without an eruption of violence. They use the experience re the Farmers' Market as an example, when, apparently, efforts to shift non-participants off the South lawn were met with threats and the Market rep was reduced to tears. Score: "1" for the non-participants, "0" for OLA, the Market & their customers. Bad precedent.

All of these attitudes are why I think the city government needs to be brought on board as part of the effort to shift the non-participants. They bear responsibility for allowing non-protesters to remain on the lawns, as they admit they "recognize" that there are ppl not-affiliated w/ OLA camping there.

I really think that the Mayor/City Council needs to be given written, public notice re the problems with allowing the present situation to continue, including the fact that both OLA & the neighbors are being preyed upon by non-participants and that OLA is being blamed for the non-participants' behaviors (See the Portland example: http://www.npr.org/2011/11/10/142220841/portland-ore-mayor-orders-occupiers-out). Once OLA & the city are on the same page we can together formulate a plan to shift the non-participants. OLA must be prepared to visualy identify the menbers of OLA, including by issuing not-easily-removable wristbands if needed.

I must restate that even though OLA has the Constitutional right to be at City Hall (as long as we stick to the activities covered under that right), OLA does not have the right or skills to police ppl outside our own group or remove ppl from public property. OLA can support the city in those efforts as requested by them.

I understand that there may be an element of double-dealing on the city's part. Some think the city has intentionally flooded OLA with non-participants as an effective weapon to destroy OLA (this seems to be a problem at OWS). The City Inspector congratulated OLA on the cleanliness of the portapotties (shoutout to Finance) the last time she was here, but then wrote up a big, fat citation anyway (WTF was that about?). One neighbor claims that the City Council says OLA "threatens violence" in response to attempts to remove us (huh?). I'm going to assume, despite any evidence to the contrary, that the city wants the situation on the lawn cleaned up and stabilized as much as OLA does in the interests of public safety.

Every Occupation has identical challenges re this issue. If OLA can come up with a solution, we would be doing the Movement a huge service and bring everyone closer to the actual goals.

 

 

Thx.

 

I have to say that I just don

Submitted by PC on

I have to say that I just don't understand the logic behind "asking" non-participants to relocate to another part of City Hall.  They have no right to camp at City Hall at all, so 1) why would we want them there and 2) what on earth makes us think that the City government would entertain for one nanosecond the idea of hosting them there? 

That would be half the point:

Submitted by Tony M on

That would be half the point: (a) They would be seperated from us, and (b) once they lost our legitimacy and support, they will crumble and the City and LAPD will move on them - and leave the genuine Occupiers alone.

#tovangar2 - I heard rumblings of the seperation idea around the camp (prob from you guys!), so that's why I brought it up. You make many salient points (as ever) and I agree that some kind of co-ordinated plan with the authorities is necessary.This is all a bit Machavellian, but something clearly needs to be done, so if it's not this solution, then another. I've also heard talk of finding another location, where we set up a new set of ground rules. Or finding a building. We have a number of options, but we need to act sooner rather than later, especially given the situations in Oakland and Denver and Portland.

Hey Tony...

Submitted by tovangar2 on

...I really think we need to put the Mayor & City Council on notice and then formulate a plan with them to oust the non-OLA ppl.

Separation would only be possible if there was enough contiguous space on the south lawn to separate ourselves physically from the others leaving them to the mercy of the authorities. Or OLA could return to the north lawn, where we started, abandoning them on the south. We really have no right to ask them to move or remove themselves from the site. It's public property. Only the authorities can ask ppl to vacate. They wouldn't move if OLA asked anyway, they've become too emboldened by the LAPD's hands-off policy.

Just a few weeks ago, we couldn't get anyone else to agree to the necessity of action, but now, with the constant crime, many see it as the only option unless we abandon the site altogether. I think it would be a pity to leave now, while under duress. If we can sort this, we can leave when we want, if we want, when we have a plan and when we're bloody well ready.

cryptomnesiac's picture

For what it's worth, my being

Submitted by cryptomnesiac on

For what it's worth, my being a spectator to the occupation part of OLA now, I'd vote for committed activists to take the north lawn. The infrastructure might have to be relocated again, like the welcome, supply, medical and food tents (and probably consolidated if space is limited), but volunteer services are under OLA's purview, whereas the party/theft/fix people have dug in their heels and can't be asked to do much of anything.

The north is also better lit, and shallower, providing greater visibility from the outside; making crime more difficult. The south is a good space for the GA, but it's been on the north before. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

I don't feel great about this, but it's a lifeboat situation. I have to explain it to myself: either we stop pouring resources (I have mixed feelings about the donations, including my own) into people who don't care about or are hostile toward the cause, or we let the chaotic stupidity—that's always been here, and will always be here—win out, and resign ourselves to the world as it is (and its decline).

You can't kick them out, but you don't have to sustain them either. Like I said, my support isn't unconditional, and it's not fair to take peoples' donations and pour them down the crapper like this. People are counting on OLA to at least try to make a difference and endure in the long term (since it's been the only kind of legitimate protest the news media hasn't been able to totally ignore).

I say just crowd the north lawn, let the assholes have the south since they love it so much they can't move for anything or anyone.

Mike C.
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