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@Marie Elks@facebook Marie - I for one do not tolerate it and I live across the street from it. City Council tried to be nice to them by letting them illegally camp and stay which was a big mistake. I wont be voting for Jan Perry or VIlla for anything. And I recommend anyone in Malibu Bill Rosendahl's region or right wing district Richard Alarcon, not vote those morons back into City Council again since they were the original supporters (without bothering to ask residents).
Anyway Marie - there's a new problem. I've spoken to everyone in City Hall and they all admit allowing the encampment is a mistake but now Occupy has become full blown nutty and are threatening Oakland violence if anyone tries to move them. No one wants them there, other than them and the few who don't know the whole back story of their nutty behavior and threats of violence. Posted on October 30, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Last Resort@twitter (#168,330)
Since they moved in a block away they've made no attempt at embracing the community they've infested. They kicked out our long standing and small farmer's market because they were paranoid it was the City's attempt at screwing them. They laugh at the fact that they're costing taxpayers a minimum of $450k in property repairs with illogical arguments: "Oh you're mad about trees and grass but people are unemployed." They have access to pretty much any land at this point and everything to the West, North, and East of them has no residential neighbors but they've pointed an illegal high power "Power of Green LA" PA system directly at gov elderly homes and apartments/condos of which they have Lolla-palooza style concerts and evangelical style loud rants from 11am - 11pm everyday. When we've collectively asked them to compromise with us and to move the PA to the other side they called us 1% er, bigotted, detractors who are violating their 1st amendment right... never-mind the fact that we are all supposed to be protected under the 14th. I'm a waitress btw who can't afford health insurance - hardly a 1% er. With the annexation of skid row in their camp now they've definitely increased the aggressive drug addict/vagrant criminal behavior around here. I have to walk home at 2 am. I chose this neighborhood a year ago because it was safer than most and affordable. Now I see all kinds of weird creepers on my walk home that put me on edge. I watched in horror as some young dude, who was out of his mind on something (probably PCP), chase down some of my dog walking neighbors earlier this week.
I was really excited initially to get a chance to go over everyday and help them but since they've been so introverted and externally hostile, I haven't bothered. They really are scary people. My friend and I walked through the camp one night and we got hissed and glared at.
Occupy LA is fail. It's unfortunate but it's fail. They're abusive and uncoordinated. They aren't concerned with national solutions over their own self-promotion (ex: Power Of Green LA stage bringing in endless concerts and noise to perpetuate their business and ideology.)
And we have no recourse. LA CIty Council foolishly gave them permission to illegally camp without asking residents (Not voting for Jan Perry for anything in the future) and now they're eating their words. My neighborhood association is now dealing with these Council members who have admitted to us they're worried about the stability of the occupiers, especially after Oakland. LA City Council has told LAPD to not enforce any laws protecting the surrounding area from loud parties/music/PA systems, from public intoxication, from public urination etc ... because LA City Council says Occupy has threatened violence and they (City Officials) have to figure out a way out of this mess now. Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Occupy Wall Street has same issues according to these news reports:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/occupy-wall-street-central-a-rift-gro...
http://xo99percent.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/policing-itself/
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-occupy-wall-street-has-become-2010-11
So WHO is gonna step up and try to WORK with the neighbors?
Submitted by Rancho Larry on
What? OLA can include, consider and care-and-feed for clearly disruptive elements, but NOT consider the 99% neighbors? IF we are to win over the people, we must be neighborly to those who surround the Occupiers. Is THAT not sensible Policy, to outreach to the neighborhood? IF NOT Why NOT?
Let's get to work people cause this Ain't No Party...
Rancho Larry
Your correct Rancho Larry
Submitted by alhs06 on
This is pretty pathetic if we can't remain grateful to the neighborhood for embracing or in the least, tolerating us. Remember we are activist's And Recruiter's by Cause & through Our Own action's. I realize we can't prevent incident's from occurring, but we can certainly try to minimize them through some simple "Preventative Maintenance" practices & techniques utilizing common sense.
The homeless have been occupying this & the surrounding area for years. We need to figure out how best to serve their needs when called for, or respond to some of the more disturbing qualities a few may posses, when presented with. The police & the working community & resident's have been dealing with them for years, in a more or less successful relationship, I suggest we do the same out of compassion, respect & responsibility.
HOWEVER, Violent & Sexual Crimes can not be tolerated no matter by who. With that said, use some Uncommon Common Sense & be aware of your surrounding's. Partner Up to Help Stay Safe!
Listen
Submitted by Farmgirl on
Maybe listen and talk to your neighbors. your neighbors support the occupiers but you need to compromise wih and respect them.
http://media.scpr.org/audio/upload/2011/11/04/totten.mp3
It's not just the neighbors who are impacted
Submitted by tovangar2 on
I am concerned because by getting sidetracked spending scarce energy, time & resources on what IMHO are amateurish attempts at helping "disruptive elements" and seriously disturbed people OLA is contributing to the dangerous situation increasing in the encampment (my own daughter says the camp is "a really dangerous place") which drives out people committed to the Movement (mostly females seem to be leaving and for good reason) and puts off others who would like to join the encampment and further the Movement's goals. This, again IMHO, is a serious and tragic misuse of human resources.
I am very sympathetic to the victims of addiction and mental illness and also to Angry Young Men suffering from blind rage but, as Larry says, "this ain't no party", we are not church ladies and OLA has a serious job to do which is, if I'm not mistaken, is to halt the actions of the global criminal class that's destroying our economy/society/environment and the politicians in collusion with them, so we can institute a representative government and bring our systems into balance. Once we've helped do that it will be better for everyone. But we cannot try to solve all of society's ills beforehand or we will never reach our goal.
I think, and again this is just my opinion, OLA should refocus on the target and move forward while making some serious outreach efforts to those communities that, so far, see no reason to make OLA their own too. No one who isn't committed to the Movement and participating in OLA's activites should be camping at City Hall.
I cannot blame the angry neighbor who made the statements above for lumping all campers together. I am very disturbed (if the neighbor is reporting them correctly) at the cynical, self-serving statements made to her by the City Council. The members are probably laughing at OLA because the perfect weapon to destroy OLA is at OLA being "cared for and fed" by OLA. One serious crime - assault, rape, murder - which, apart from the victim's tragedy, would clear the camp in moments, leaving the LA-area donor/supporter peeps like me without a focal point, adversely impact the entire OWS Movement and put the ultimate goal further out of reach.
I do not have all the solutions, but unless OLA can come to a consensus about how to rectify the present situation the decision will be made for us.
We get no where without local support
Submitted by Fex on
Bump.
We'll end up getting no where without local support.
If OLA remains a place that folks hesitate to or would refuse to bring their families to, then our local movement fails. Simple as that.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Thx Fex
Submitted by tovangar2 on
...But it would seem, apart from you & Larry, that there are no other OLA ppl concerned about the issues raised here. So, I guess it is a party & we are content to wait for others to make our decisions for us.
New sign, "Revolution Later!"
I've seen it brought up quite
Submitted by Fex on
I've seen it brought up quite a few times on the forum, people are aware so that's cool.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
I thought your post on another thread had some good solutions:
Submitted by Mahayana on
Inviting more community groups may help OLA site safety
Submitted by Fex on Thu, 11/03/2011 - 10:55am
We are afterall the "99%" - am thinking that more community group involvement might help out with "camp safety" - outreach and publicity aside.
Basically, the higher numbers of respectful understanding calm people around, the more such "good" attitude will spread. Thus if we invite more local community groups to the Occupy site to talk, look around, mingle, etc it helps with overall improvement to all. Such groups include local womens' rights groups, non profit orgs that do community outreach (for homeless, poor, health, list goes on), churches/mosques/synagogues, lgbt groups, universities, neighborhood watches, etc.
This is also OLA reaching out to the community, however aside from that (and outreach is awesome and has other rewards) bringing in and encouraging local groups that already do good work through volunteering would increase on-site numbers of many "respectable" active men and women, many of whom would not be thrown off much by the homeless and drug abusers that have been attracted to the OLA grounds. Simply having their presence would spread a positive vibe and discourage poor behaviour (if 19 out of 20 people direct their discouragement at a perpetrator for their actions, said perpetrator is much less likely to perpetrate if they don't think they will get away with it).
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves - in their separate, and individual capacities. -Abe
However...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
... many useful-to-the-revolution people (including the groups you mention) come in and decide not to participate because of the dangerous situation at the camp (& believe me, they are totally put off by violent drug-abusers & layabouts). Other valuable, participating people are dropping out for the same reason. Are we really making the conscious choice to "care for & feed" the disruptive elements (who, after all, have no Free Speech/Assembly right to be there), forsaking all others, to the detriment of camp safety and the continued occupation? Was that agreed to at a GA? Have the donors been informed?
If Occupy LA is giving up the core issues to run an amateur outreach program for all comers then we lose our right to be there too, as that activity does not fall under the right to Free Speech/Assembly.
...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
...
Good point
Submitted by Fex on
Good point that some of those groups have already come, they've seen, and they've left.
I say invite them back.
Mayhaps on a specific two day outreach program that they're invited in advance to attend- not just to look around- ask various groups if they'd be willing to run a half hour, 1 hour, or 2 hour workshop/class of some sort. That way there could be a flood of newcomers all from various purposeful groups (such as the ones previously mentioned), who also represent together a large slice of the 99%, and at least during those two days there would be a large amount of pro-active people hopefully dwarfing the in-active folks.
Then invite them back the next week for more of the same. Repeat. Keep on encouraging and actively inviting people in not only to "check OLA out" but asking them to teach and spread their knowledge as well. Many groups like an audience, and many folks at OLA may be interested to be their audience as well as folks off-site may want to come on-site for various seminars if a schedule is posted well in advance. A day or two each week of this might be enough momentum for it to feed off itself and spread.
Perhaps OLA flyers posted around as well that are visible reminders of reasons the movement was started (get money out of politics, reign in the power of Wall Street, etc) and a short bit saying something like "Only once our main goals are met in order to fix our government and financial system, and only once we the people are properly represented again, THEN can we as a people address other issues through a working system." Seems to me a lot of people lose focus of this, or do not even realize that this idea is a big part if not the core of Occupy (I see it as a big part, mebe I'm wrong).
Perhaps may be worth it to ask around with the local business owners if any of them would like to come share their story or if they have anything else they wish to talk to Occupiers about.
I figure that of course we have a large group of intransients and what many consider as skid row elements- these are the people most immediately by Occupy. They're the people that free food and shelter makes a single day better. There's probably infiltrators among them as well, I'd say that will be true no matter what elements of society show up though, there will always be infiltrators.
The simplest way to lower the % of skid row at OLA is to simply raise the attendance numbers of everyone else. Doing so will most likely require a lot of footwork, actually having small groups and individuals going to offices and organizations in person to have conversations and offer invites.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Oh yeah...
Submitted by Fex on
Oh yeah. I am not saying to stand up for people's rights to break laws in public (unless necessary- subjective can of worms that). People who are toking up in public I think will do so less if others are constantly reminding them "We're here for this this and this reasons. The laws of this country, state, county, and city still apply here. If you are caught using drugs, the police can still arrest you. We won't stop them from arresting you either, this issue is not what this movement is here for and we do not wish to endanger the whole movement by fighting the cops over it . Please consider getting drunk or high elsewhere, doing it in public is just endangering yourself to arrest. It's your choice to break the law or not." Basically, respectful disapproval.
If there's less of a party atmosphere then those there to party will leave or become active.
Perhaps the only solution will be to bring the cops in on a couple individuals, or even a lot of individuals. Perhaps that would go smoothly, perhaps it'd be a clusterf*ck.
Bringing in more non-partiers and more "mainstream" people seems to me to less likely for events to go fubar.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Come on Fex...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
...you're a smart guy. Listen to Rancho Larry:
"What the majority of the Occupiers do not grasp is that they are there for ONE PURPOSE and one purpose only. That purpose is to Peaceably Assemble and to petition the government with redress of their grievances. That’s IT folks. You are NOT there to start a people’s university. You are not there to feed and cloth the homeless who have flocked to the lawns to take whatever advantage and raise whatever hell they can get away with... You ARE there to Peaceably Assemble to petition the government with a redress of YOUR grievances. That IS the one reason you are there and that one reason allows you the PROTECTION of the First Amendment to remain in Occupation of the City Hall lawns. Once you move outside that Peaceful Assembly process THEN the LA City officials and LAPD can and will make the case in Federal court that YOU ALL were no longer Peacefully Assembled, to petition the government with your grievances. That's the Ball-Game.."
So no, I'm not gonna invite people in to give seminars on small-business ownership, or whatever, in order to adjust the percentages or for any other reason, because there isn't one. The encampment needs to be made up of 100% Movement participants.
And as far as inviting people back goes, I've just about ruined my rep w/ the useful, enthused people I have sent to Occupy LA. They've shown up and left after having been confronted by staggering men drinking out of paper bags. And these are people who were in no way looking for an excuse not to participate, quite the opposite.
I can and will now tell people that the situation at City Hall is not ideal, despite the really valiant efforts of some Occupy LA people, and that help is needed sorting it out so Occupy LA can get back on track. Some may respond to that.
Well, frack
Submitted by Fex on
Eh? I didn't say to have seminars on small business ownership. I was speaking of various non profit orgs and/or actual university teachers to run short classes or workshops or simply give a talk. Which they can already do at OLA, but many are probably not aware of it, and some of them we may want around regularly or to invite for one day.
One example why I was thinking this may help is I heard several women and men both expressing that many women do not feel safe at OLA. Something that may help would be to invite one or more women's rights groups down to OLA. The mere presence of such a group may help many to feel more comfortable. Letting such a group hold a workshop or discussion as I see it is only helpful.
But... the only response I got right now to your last paragraph is:
Well . . . frack.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Sorry, I was re-editing as you were responding
Submitted by tovangar2 on
There's a different last paragraph now (the former last paragraph is now next to last). And women are not the problem, men are. Maybe some feminist men's groups need to be there. That might help. It's hypocritical to complain about being oppressed when one reserves the right to oppress others.
One young woman spoke at a GA last week about having to run a gauntlet of sexist catcalls and abuse to get to the porta-potties at night. Night time is the real danger zone for women. That should not be the case at Occupy LA.
P.S. For the record:
"Perhaps may be worth it to ask around with the local business owners if any of them would like to come share their story or if they have anything else they wish to talk to Occupiers about."
I stand corrected
Submitted by Fex on
I wasn't thinking "business seminars" when I wrote that, but yeah I can see how "anything else they wish to talk to Occupiers about" leaves that wide open. I was thinking more along the lines of their views/input on political, economic, and social issues.
I don't have an idea at this time about nighttime safety for women except somehow having trusted peace keepers willing to work shifts through the night acting as either escorts or a stationed presence.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Men's behavior, Patriarchy & the Revolution among us
Submitted by tovangar2 on
Men's sexist behavior is not a women's issue it's a men's issue. At OLA it's reported to be practiced by both non-participants and OLA members. I cannot do anything about non-participants, but I've been gob-smacked to hear men speaking on the Occupy LA Livestream, who should bloody well know better, refer to how many good-looking women or hot chicks are at OLA as a come on to men to join the Occupation. All this does is get the wrong men in and women out. The revolution among us is every bit as important as our common and concurrent efforts to throw off our 1% oppressors.
We cannot rely on "trusted peacekeepers to work shifts through the night" at OLA to 'solve' or police the problem. Every man at the Occupation needs to reach a mental state where he wouldn't even think of engaging in such behavior. I wasn't kidding about getting in a feminist men's group to knock some sense into certain of the Occupiers. One Occupier, who's known a young woman since the OLA's planning days, hasn't even bothered to remember her name, doesn't even recognize it. He's satisfied to just call her "the blonde girl", even though he's fully aware of her value to the Movement. Minor maybe, but exhausting. I assume if the fellow in question was referred to the same way, as a no-name whatever, he'd be outraged. Or a Movement guy on the Livestream chat the other night was going on about "hot chicks" and their inexplicable oversensitivity to such labels. He thought that was unfair as he "didn't mean anything by it." I pointed out to him that it was analogous to calling a Black man "boy" and then wondering why the man objected. I don't know if he got it or not.
The issue isn't limited to sexist men. As I've already said, it's hypocritical to complain about being oppressed when one reserves the right to oppress others. Patriarchy (the root cause of our 1%'er problem, if I'm not mistaken) works because of what W.E.B. Dubois called "psychological wages". He was speaking about white privilege but those same wages are paid throughout hierarchical societies. Less wealthy, straight white men put up with being oppressed by the 1% because they are "allowed" to oppress white women and both white women and men are "allowed" to oppress everyone below them in the hierarchy. Straight Black men are "allowed" to oppress Black women while both enjoy the privilege of oppressing others down the hierarchy as the psychological wages owed to them for their own oppression, even as they harbor justified anger about it. And so it goes down the artificial line. Each group, whether racial or some other "other" (undocumented, LGBT, the working class, muslims, cops etc., etc.) gets oppressed, hates their oppressors, but takes their psychological wages by oppressing those down the chain. Each group is also encouraged by patriarchy to be blind to the oppression they perpetrate by seeing that oppression as the oppressed group's problem (which is why I jumped on you when you seemed to be saying that sexism was a women's problem in your second to last post). I've been distressed to see whites at OLA become impatient with Blacks who want to express their resentment at their oppression by whites and have it acknowledged, seemingly because it's seen by the whites as an internal Black community issue that's a waste of time to discuss at OLA GA's. If that is the case, no wonder there's not a greater Black presence at City Hall.
This doesn't apply to everyone, of course, plenty of people manage to judge others on the content of their character. But maybe activists in particular imagine themselves outside the culture that we critique, but we're just fooling ourselves, we are deep in it. If the Movement is going to present a model that society will want to emulate we need to critique ourselves too and truly understand how words and actions affect others and define each of us and all of us. We need to make real efforts to break down the barriers between us. Everyone should feel psychologically and physically safe and welcome within the Movement. One of the best reasons to do this is because nothing would scare the 1% more than to see patriarchy in tatters and the 99% truly united against the 1%'s actions. I'd enjoy seeing that because it would mean we'd won.
OK, lecture over, soapbox stowed. I've gone on too long as usual, stating my opinions as if they were gospel. If you got this far I probably should send you a beer.
Beer accepted
Submitted by Fex on
We're pretty much on the same page my friend, no worries ;)
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Other people would be horrified if homeless people ejected
Submitted by Lee on
As someone who is active in the occupy movement but not able to camp out, I have no right to say what the people staying there should do to be safe. And I certainly don't want women to leave, and I know some have. But I really hope that increasing the number of volunteer peace or harmony keepers, (ok, security) especially at night, soliciting more help from mental health,social services, medical professionals,and organizations that work with the homeless, actively getting more food donations, as well as figuring out where to expand the occupation site, are the approaches taken. I am positive from conversations with people, that at least as many people would turn away from the movement if it treats homeless people the way the larger society does, as would be encouraged to come. It sends a terrible message that the press will make the most of--maybe the message that we don't represent the 99%, we represent the middle 79%, we don't represent or care about the poorest, the most down and out.. The homeless are the most hard hit by the policies we are protesting, and having them in the encampment makes an incredibly strong statement in itself. It also, to be blunt, puts very powerful pressure on the haves and the 1%, a pressure that the homeless have not had on their behalf before. Even if only a very small percentage of homeless people become activists, I think that will scare the hell out of the "deciders." They don't want that to grow.
As I hope the occupy movement stays fundamentally peaceful (although it's always hard to control 100% the provocateurs and the testosterone-challenged), I am mindful of Martin Luther King's explanation that the goal of civil disobedience is to bring about a righteous crisis, in which the powerful cannot just keep doing the same thing--they are forced to change, and we want the change to be in a direction toward democracy and social justice. A movement that includes the homeless, in some way, helps create that necessary crisis.
Leone
Homelessness is not at issue
Submitted by tovangar2 on
There are homeless people who are incredibly valuable to Occupy LA and committed to the Movement. Some have been organizers from the beginning and others became contributors later on.
The problem lies with non-participants, whoever they are, homeless or not, disruptive or not. The Occupation's legal basis for being at City Hall is the right to Free Speech and Peaceable Assembly to Petition the Government for Redress of Grievances. Any who are not participating in that activity have no right to camp there and may well cause Occupy LA to be the baby that gets thrown out with the bath water.
stuck key, sorry
Submitted by tovangar2 on
I wish there was some way to delete mistaken posts.
Kick the idiots out!
Submitted by emwoccupyla on
I think if there are idiots making women feel uncomfortable, catcalls and such should not be tollerated, public drinking and drug use should not be tollerated, kick them out. If necessary kick their a$$, then kick them out.
I tried to do something one day, made a citizens arrest of a repeat offender, went to security and reported behavior that was damaging to the movement, this person had been warned over and over, no one was willing to step up so I did. We got the police made a report ad had the offender arrested. Unfortunatly the person was doing something that they could no really make an arrest for, they did take him into custody and check for warrants but he was released and back at camp in a few hours. The police making the arrest said this would most likely happen, they were right. They told me off the record that they thought we should. if necessary kick this fools ass if he kept doing stupid stuff and they would look the other way.
Zero tollerence, make rules, enforce rules, kick out the fools that are not there to make a difference and support the movement and each other , if necessary kick their ass and kick them out. OLA is already a becomming a big joke, I support he ideals of OWS 100% and did OLA but have become somewhat disenchanted by the do what ever the fu@k you want attitude a bunch of fools down there are exhibiting. Kick them out!
OK, I mostly agree w/ you...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
..except for the violence. However "...make rules, enforce rules, kick out the fools that are not there to make a difference and support the movement and each other..." is fine by me. The rules do have to be for safety though, not just control.
I never would have survived raising four kids on my own in a two-bedroom apartment w/o rules and solidarity. I did partly raise two unrelated kids too, but they knew what the deal was, appreciated it, & fit right in. We're still basically wall to wall here, and yes, I'm still sleeping on the sofa. LOL.
Also, in the 60's, I was part of the Arts Lab, a live/work situation that was open to the public pretty much 24 hours a day. Members (a very loosely applied term) would come and go, but we were on constant alert for folks who meant to move in because they were looking for a rent-free & cop-free zone to do hard drugs and raise hell, destroying the considerable value of the space to the public and the members. We bundled them out pretty quickly, usually within hours. There were raised voices at times, but no violence. They would always slink off in the end. The onslaught was constant, but easy enough to deal with one or two at a time. The secret was to never let their numbers build up. That and safety-based rules & solidarity with the people one's supposed to be looking after.
Conduct Code
Submitted by ultrarad on
Freedom of association is also part of the first amendment, and includes the freedom to not associate. If people behave in a way that undermines our movement, we are free to disassociate ourselves from them. They still have their right peacable assembly, just not in our faces. Example: both the American Nazi Party and the Anti-Defamation League are free to protest eachother. Cops keep them out of eachothers' faces when they demonstrate and counterdemonstrate. If this continues to be a problem (or perhaps we should go ahead) the GA should consider adopting a simple conduct code (perhaps cribbed from University conduct codes) that emphasizes creating and maintaining an environment that welcomes people into our movement. Something simple, but in black and white, which everyone is informed of, and which is acted upon. (Maybe followed with geurilla theater-style enactments of behavior that gets people booted, followed by the enactment of them being booted just to drive the point home with a visual.) Anyone unable to stick to it is out--they've ceded any right to participate by infringing on others' rights to participate. A movement needs self-discipline if it's gonna get anywhere at all.
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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
OLA Code of Conduct Eh That sounds, well good to me....
Submitted by Rancho Larry on
and will be sad for others... Combine that with an Oakland Style Camp Public Safety Patrol and it really might be sustainable (speaking of sustainability)
NICE RL
...of course it sucks, but...
Submitted by ultrarad on
it sucks less than having the movement dragged under by failing to be proactive. Besides which, it's much better if we have a "don't even think about it" atmosphere: if everyone stays in line in the first place, it won't feed on itself, it won't keep creating a distraction, and anyone who might not have stayed in line but does because they know anything less won't be tolerated can still be part of the movement. It's as much a retention policy if it works out that way. On another level, it's worth noting that the "let's see what I can get away with" attitude is nothing we want to cultivate in our midst or anywhere else. That's how the 1% sees the world. If we mean much, we're about something different. Including respecting ourselves and respecting each other.
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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
The OWS encampment has problems with men's behavior too
Submitted by tovangar2 on
I think Occupy LA is probably too hard on itself. The truth is every Occupy struggles w/ the same issues, including that of men's behavior. Maybe it's time for a national approach:
"I have heard too many terrible stories testifying to the very real violence and dangers plaguing female occupiers as night falls"
http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152940/are_we_bonobos_or_chimpanzee...
Don't miss this excellent blog post about Occupy LA, including the problems
http://www.occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/1551
The Mayor's office finally admits that...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
"we recognize that a number of the individuals who are on the lawn are not affiliated with the Occupy L.A. protest."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1105-occupy-crime-20111105,0,7765367.story
So what are they doing there? Why is he hosting them? He could get them to leave while Occupy LA makes themselves scarce on a march or sumpin'
Print Lab stolen
Submitted by tovangar2 on
The Print Lab (the silk-screening set-up) was stolen recently. Some of the equipment and supplies were recovered, but in a damaged condition. (Ink stolen from the print lab was used to vandalize the fountain). It cannot reopen until replacements are found.
The Print Lab serves a valuable fuction as an outreach to visitors (including school groups) and also builds solidarity by printing items for Occupy LA.
When was it stolen and when was the fountain vandalized?
Submitted by Louise Belcher on
.
Last Thursday, I think...
Submitted by tovangar2 on
...check w/ anyone from the Print Crew to confirm, Kat, Jesse, Alex, etc.
I have to compare the current
Submitted by cryptomnesiac on
I have to compare the current situation to what happened in the first weeks. I don't think this could have happened back then. I came to OLA as a gonzo reporter, and was carrying a camera most of the time, shooting dozens of photos a day. I sat down on the steps, placed my camera beside me to tie my shoes or something, and having done that walked away without it.
I didn't notice it was missing until I left. But I'll be damned if it wasn't there at the lost and found.
Things have changed for the worse. Much, much worse. It's so out of control, the movement's political efficacy is debatable at best unless steps are taken to separate the committed from the partiers, thieves and vandals.
I've been working with Arts a bit since it rebooted, and I wanted to create something like an OLA badge or other signifier, that you'd only get if you signed the pledge including the principles laid out by OWS. Nobody liked the idea (somebody called it "dumb" right in front of me, probably unaware I had proposed it -- the cheek of it!).
Speaking for myself, it'd be a morale boost to walk the lawn, see badges here and there, and just think, "OK, I don't know some of these people, but it looks like they're down for the fight."
In any case, if we split out time on chasing our tails, we'll get nowhere. I suppose that's what the city, and those weasels in the CCA, would like to see.
Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook
Good idea Mike
Submitted by Mahayana on
A couple weeks ago I wouldn't have agreed with the idea of the signifier, but after seeing OLA last weekend, I think it is imperative that this be done - and fast. It's unfortunate that it has to be that way, but it is what it is. There are obviously people there just to party. Others are putting their lives on hold to fight for something they believe in. I say do whatever it takes without worrying about how it will be percieved. If you're not there to help, then you're only a hindrance to the movement.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves - in their separate, and individual capacities. -Abe
There is one Occupy that has
Submitted by invictus99 on
There is one Occupy that has wristbands. But, I think people shy away from it because of the whole idea of wearing identifying "uniforms" or like armbands like some other not so cool movements. I agree with the pledge. But the hardest part is it is not easily enforceable, if at all.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
*
Submitted by tovangar2 on
It's true, the pledge wouldn
Submitted by cryptomnesiac on
It's true, the pledge wouldn't be enforceable. But I'd hope the people not willing to police themselves wouldn't bother with it. It's not like they'd be kicked out for not signing on.
Yeah, uniforms are only used by organized groups. :D
...
:(
But anyway, I don't think it's a far stretch to have an OLA signifier. People have adopted the 99% label. That this says OLA would mean you had actually accepted the cause, and didn't just happen to fall into some financial category.
Mike C.
Buffalo Beast - Twitter - Facebook
Code of Conduct
Submitted by patsyyy on
Greetings, I was at City hall this weekend and I was very proud to wear my wristband, I wear it everyday anywhere I go. I felt the power, the passion and the pain of many others, but I also didnt like the people who were there to party and just being an eye sore, I think It is so rude and disrespectful to so many others who have dedicated so much time and sacrifice to camp there, to put a stop to there daily life to defend our rights, why cant we show some respect and appreciate what this cause signifies, I hope people wake up and realize this is not a party, and it is not the time to party, the party will come later. I was very frustrating to me to see that. Those people have no honor. They should be ashamed. And have the sense to move on and get out of before they do so much damage to the cause. Thank you
Patsy
8
Submitted by tovangar2 on
8
8 Nov GA given over to camp violence issue
Submitted by tovangar2 on
The issue of violence and the non-Movement troublemakers the City is hosting at City Hall was the main subject of Tuesday's GA and will continue at today's GA. The continued occupation of the Occupation has been a critical issue for some time. OLA campers are dealing with disruptions, thefts, vandalism and physical attacks, including sexually-motivated attacks, on a daily basis causing valuable-to-the-Movement people to leave or not join OLA to begin with and also putting off donors.
I hope that certain OLA people who may have originally thought it a good idea to concentrate our energies on an amateur outreach effort to the troublemakers to try to absorb them into OLA, have now changed their minds to refocus on the Revolution, the results of which will help everyone.
I do not think we can successfully deal with the issue on a case-by-case basis, but only by requiring the Mayor (he is hosting them after all and "recognizes" that fact) to remove all non-Movement people from the grounds of City Hall as they do not enjoy Free Speech/Assembly rights which OLA has for an Occupation.
The present situation threatens OLA's continuation at City Hall and very existence.
Some highlights from last night's Minutes (full Minutes may be found on the home page under "Get Involved"):
"[NOTE: Last night after the GA and some time before dawn, a man and woman (?in a tent together?) on the southeast lawn had a violent incident against or with each other. There was mention of 'meth' and a helicopter or helicopters above. These are the minutes of a disrupted GA with this more important matter which prevails upon the minds of many hard working, peaceful, and non-violent; modern-day revolutionaries here at Occupy Los Angeles.
7:55 pm, , : This is not an isolated incident. These are things that have been passed through the GA, Regarding this issue that happened last night. Every drug use is a problem that we have not resolved.
7:56 pm, , : I like the idea of Breakout into Groups on this ...When it turns violent, when it comes down to the community having to address a personal issue we must ask the person perpetrating the [?assault?/crime] is to ASK THEM TO LEAVE. [AGREEMENT IN THE BODY OF THE GA].
7:58 pm, , :Anthony, ,,: I believe this is a discussion of a problem that needs to happen right now. ...He was on [?drugs? ?meth?] and this needs to be talked about now. Sorry for those who have proposals today but we must not depart from this issue.
8:07 pm, , : What we need to address tomorrow is people with alcohol and violence, and drugs, and psychological problems.
8:12 pm, , : [Concerning those with PSYCHOLOGICAL problems and DRUG ABUSE]...We have to realize we are under attack, and some of us know there are agents... ...opportunists who want to take advantage of that... ...I also agree this discussion needs to be discussed tonight. It goes to the heart of the movement. Please remember the [LAPD] is giving us all enough rope to hang ourselves.
8:16 pm, , : I'm a father and I told my family and said, "Hey kids this is it, the way, and what we need to do." [But after this event] I don't see any children here anymore. if families don't come out here with us [THIS MOVEMENT IS IN JEOPARDY]. Let's do this now and deal with this.
8:19 pm, , : Hi GA, this is going to be addressed, and it is going to happen and be addressed all night... ...This needs to be addressed because this is one of the most important issues happening in our camp right now... ...Let's make this the highest priority. Let's make this our biggest issue... ...There's a safety issue, and the safety issue needs to be resolved right now. There's fewer people here right now because of this and there will be even fewer if we do not resolve it now.
8:21 pm, Jeanette, : ...Like the elephant in the room I [have always wondered] when we are going to address it. ...the people who do not want to address this issue have addictions and [?need help?].
...other people to be attracted to come here. ...and those who do work out there and come back and try to [help out] and make this a better movement. Those who do not want to address this issue now we ask them to leave here, and those who do to stay and address it...
8:30 pm, , Welcome Tent: We get a lot of people talking to us about drugs. I had two people tell me that they are not going to give us [a donation] because "...this place is different/[has changed]."
8:33 pm, Jeremy, : We need to focus this GA on violence. If we're serious about this movement...
9:30 pm: , , : Some of us were thinking that the security issue in our camp is going to cause a security issue outside the camp with the [LAPD] ...If you want to do what you want that's okay as long as it does not infringe with my security. Our security is not really a security force but are Peace Keepers... Our security should be able to escort [an offender].
9:38 pm, Regina, : We talked about reclaiming our space... ...and those who attract other people who are coming to do the party thing. they come into our space and are looting the place, joining the others who are partying, ...thirdly the people who really want to be here and really want help. I lose sleep over the fact that [violators] come here...
9:44 pm, : ...We are a movement of individuals and the movement is bigger than any one individuals. What we have to do is get rid of the people who will [expletive] this movement up
9:53 pm, , : What we have to do is 'Honor' this space. If we are not honoring this space we are not going to be here to honor it. ...
10:05 pm, Michael: While we were talking, we witness a person who was stealing. He took shoes and a knife. We followed him in a circle and kept telling him to take off the boots. One of us took a punch on the face when he became violent and that's when we took him down and removed the boots ourselves. along came the police... that's what we have to do to be non-violent."
Good page from OWS' site http://occupywallst.org/forum/everyone-has-right-occupy-space-safely/
I highly suggest this article
Submitted by 99-kitty on
http://radioornot.com/site/?p=5181
Occupy’s Asshole Problem: Flashbacks from An Old Hippie
As a veteran of those days — with the scars to prove it — watching the OWS organizers struggle with drummers, druggies, sexual harassers, racists, and anarchists brings me back to a few lessons we had to learn the hard way back in the day, always after putting up with way too much over-the-top behavior from people we didn’t think we were allowed to say “no” to. It’s heartening to watch the Occupiers begin to work out solutions to what I can only indelicately call “the asshole problem.” In the hope of speeding that learning process along, here are a few glimmers from my own personal flashbacks — things that it’s high time somebody said right out loud...
I like the ideas
Submitted by Fex on
I like the ideas put forth by that article.
"Word following word- I wrought words. Deed following deed, I wrought deeds." - The Havamal
Well, it's basic intimidation tactics for a worthy cause
Submitted by sfine2 on
Well, it's basic intimidation tactics for a worthy cause, confronting assholes damaging the movement, but obviously open to abuse if not done by people who know what they're doing. I'm referring to the article at http://radioornot.com/site/?p=5181
I worry such a tactic at the OLA camp may backfire. As I recall there already are OWS techniques for peaceably dealing with disruptors when they act up, for instance at a GA. That could be applied to situations where you drop by for a chat after the fact with an "asshole" who is harming the movement in some way.
There are other ways to deal with this stuff. For instance, with the incessant drumming that keeps people up all night. (I don't know if that is still going on; if not, then skip this part, or keep it in mind if there is ever a re-occurance.) You just wait until the drummer finally give it up and goes to sleep, then you wake him up. Over and over. No violence, no words. Just a gentle nudge, or say, "Awake," in their ears until he does. Then walk away. This should get the point across.
Agree Fex
Submitted by alhs06 on
It's @ least a start. However if the "Asshole" is homeless with mental issues the circle strategy may have a detrimental effect to one or both groups. Taking Caution in assessing each situation & "Asshole" must be practiced.
Also, I have never been a rat, but if we have a problem with someone, we may want to utilize the service we as taxpayers spend a good portion of our tax dollars on, the police.
Just a thought
PROTECT, PROMOTE, PROTEST! We are #Occupy, We are The 99%.
Another GA and another forum thread
Submitted by tovangar2 on
The second consecutive GA on the ongoing situation in the camp was held last night. Minutes linked on the Home Page of this site. It doesn't look like there's any clear way forward yet.
Also another Forum thread has been started addressing the same topic as this one:
Occupiers should be Activists
[crosspost] Portland Mayor Ordering OccupyPortland to Leave...
Submitted by ultrarad on
because of drug-abuse.
This is why drug abuse has to be controlled. Sooner or later, they'll be removed; will the rest of the Occupation?
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/10/142220841/portland-ore-mayor-orders-occupi...
Responsible citizens assembled to petition government for redress are protected by the First Amendment. If they want to petition for drug legalization, they absolutely can; using drugs is not petitioning government.
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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
LAPD Chief Beck's 11/9/11 comments
Submitted by ultrarad on
For anyone who hadn't heard it/didn't know about it, he says he's taking the tollerant/nudge approach so long as things are under control but doesn't "think is ecologically sustainable for a long period of time."
http://www.scpr.org/programs/patt-morrison/2011/11/09/21325/ask-the-chie...
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Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
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