Our Demands

Submitted by RyanRiceLA on

RyanRiceLA's picture

Forums: 

Nationalize internet access and infrastructure so all people have fair and equal access to information. This would make permanent the vital concept of NET NEUTRALITY and be rolled into equal and affordable access to education.

End Racism, Sexism, Homophobia--Working Class Unity

Submitted by LeftWingingIt on

If we hope for our movement to grow and succeed in uniting the entire 99% against the 1% then we must fight against every single vestige of racism, sexism, and homophobia that keeps people divided into narrow political outlooks. We should expand on this demand to practical things potentially along the lines of:

Full amnesty for all immigrants who are faced with racism on a daily basis and super-exploited by the 1% on both sides of the border.

LGBT equality.

End to racist police brutality that Black and Latino youth have been disproportionately subjected to.

Gender equality, including protection of abortion rights that have been the main attacks from the far-right for years now.

These are by no means all-inclusive to politicial demands that will build unity. But the fact of the matter is we have to think about uniting the 99%

STOP THE FOOD WAR!

Submitted by tiffanyme001 on

Please add an article to help people obtain healthy raw foods. There is a war going on with foods! Pasteurizing kills live beneficial bacteria and make foods less nutritious. When you feel sick the doctors send you into a pharmacy to obtain big pharma drugs! There is a war on your food because Big Pharma wants profits!

Absolutely agreed. Stop the

Submitted by PHXie on

Absolutely agreed. Stop the raids on private co-ops that provide their (voluntary) members with whole foods. Require labeling of foods that contain genetically modified organisms (GM foods). Better yet, outlaw the production and inclusion into our food supply of GMOs. Health through wholesome nutrition, not through pharmaceuticals!

Messages of the founding fathers: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=217204115009151

Lev's picture

For Socialism!

Submitted by Lev on

Long-term goal - End Capitalism! 

Short-term demands - Stop All Foreclosures! Erase Student Debt! Hire Back all Laid Off Teachers! Really Tax Corporations and the Rich! Full Marriage Equality! All US Troops and Contractors out of Iraq and Afghanistan! 

(Of course, the list could go on and on. . . ) 

Touchy Subject

Submitted by Venturadugan on

I'm for socialism, but I think we could get more support from average people for goals and demands with socialist results by not involving the word socialism in their title.  It scares people who don't understand it.  We need to make it easy for people to support us for significant change.  If it's labeled as a socialist movement we automatically lose support of people who have been programmed to fear it.

 

Seriously.  Just call it

Submitted by nobody on

Seriously.  Just call it Medicare, Social Security, city services, libraries, schools, parks, roads.  It's all public services and public spaces.  The rich are trying to privatize everything and create privately owned cartels to run these services. They already did it to prisons, and look at what happened: SB1070 was a law written by the prison business.

 

CONSTITUTIONALISM!

Submitted by tiffanyme001 on

Really? Do you really want to see where socialism gets us? Please look up socialism and socialistic places. See hoe their system works--NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE CONSTITUTION!

People of the world are in it together

Submitted by DaMadScientist on

Uprisings are happening around the world and people are realizing they have quite a lot of problems in common.  Madison, Wisconsin and Cairo, Egypt was a prime example of people from opposite sides of the globe feeling united.  Creating greater access for Occupy L.A.'s thoughts, concerns and strategies can be beneficial to people around the globe.

Stop the wars now!

Submitted by Matt Demands on

The wars must be stopped so as to bring the troops AND the MONEY home.  Aside from all of the death and destruction these wars have caused, these wars have cost taxpayers TRILLIONS over the last decade.  If this money were left to spend back at home in America, it would solve MANY of the social ills that plague us today in healthcare, education, jobs, social security, and our general quality of life and living standards.

Ok, I think we are kinda

Submitted by OccupyLA on

Ok, I think we are kinda diverting to the whole point of the start of this movement. Which was the concentration on WallStreet specifically.

Meaning: getting money out of politics and getting the 1% to pay their fair share.

What i propose:

Making lobbying illegal or some type of massive regulatory reforms, but make it illegal/banning would be a better method. Taking the money out of politics goes a long way. Especially out of campaign funds as well. The amount some of these corporations donate to a candidate is unbelievable, to the point where one questions whether it is just an out right bribe.

When you take the money out of politics, the politicians become more receptive to the people.

Another demand: allowing the bush tax cuts to expire. this is critical for getting the top 1% to pay their fair share.

and thirdly: a possible reform of the Federal Reserve, as likely killing it right away, would prove to be difficult, but slowly hacking at it, would help a lot. At the very least, make it possible for it to be subjective to audits, without any b.s.

Now this, truly unifies with the Occupy WallStreet movement, and attacks the problems of our current gov, AT ITS CORE.

When you do this, you can work on other issues more easily, as again: the politician becomes more receptive, as he/she isn't being bought out.

-mono

Amen.

Submitted by Venturadugan on

Everything posted in this forum so far is something that needs to happen, but in order for those things to happen first we need to focus on what Mono has mentioned above.  Our demands should be divided into DEMANDS and GOALS.  Demands being what Occupy Wall St set out to accomplish, and goals being what we plan on changing as we move on with the movement in the future.    

I suggest that the best way to get money out of politics is to dismantle citizens united, which can only be done by amending the constitution. Corporate personhood is destroying democracy. It's the biggest problem in campaign financing.  If you want to get money out of politics, this needs to be stopped.

We could help this happen by setting up a booth with a computer linked to movetoamend.org where they can sign their petition and educate themselves on issues, movetoamend.org has been working on it for a while, and it would be a good idea to contact them.  

This would be a good idea for similar websites. 

 I was surpirsed at the lack of education stations at the occupation yesterday.  

Absolutely

Submitted by jdubb on

This movement cannot be hijacked by every possible gripe people have with society.  This movement is about the the greed and corruption of US financial institutions, the Federal Reserve, and preferable treatment given to bankers by politicians and regulatory bodies - all of this is a major cause of nearly every other major problem people complain about.  This movement must stay focused otherwise it is doomed and the media is right - we would be directionless complainers.  Diluting the movement = destroying the movement.

Consequences if we fail to do this

Submitted by entrepreneur99 on

I agree.

There is another reason for doing things this way. If our demands are biased to the left then that is how the media will paint it. Once you are painted as far-left, you've lost the support of anyone on the center/right. You're no longer the 99%; you're the 49%, and you are then just a partisan group like any other. Plus, you can be certain the Democratic party will try to coopt the movement, exacerbating the problem.

I recommend going for a carefully crafted, very short statement that explains our views on the state of corporate influence on the government. Nothing more.

The more you say, the more you risk putting your foot in your mouth, or the more you risk being labeled in one of the countless ways that are unhelpful to our principal cause.

Also consider this: we don't need to have the answers. We don't need to dicatate what new laws need to be written. At least not yet. For the time being we mostly need to draw attention to one specific problem that everybody can rally around and demand that those people whose job it is to run the country get to work and fix it.

If we get to the point where politicians tell us "ok you win, what can we do that will make you happy?" then we can get together and figure it out. But we are nowhere near that point, so why shoot oursleves in the foot now?

Actually, I think this (and

Submitted by PHXie on

Actually, I think this (and the commenters) are right on target. There are so many issues that we feel passionate about, but there is a serious risk of politicising and diluting the movement if we throw all of our grievances and wishes into the pot right now. Keeping a tight focus will accomplish much more. Once we get our government out from under corporate ownership, we will be able to effect change in so many other ways. Thanks, @OccupyLA, for helping us stay focused.

Messages of the founding fathers: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=217204115009151

YES I agree!

Submitted by david on

What people need to realize that ALL problems actually come from the same source - the greed of the elite! Coop-farms, raw food movements, anti-war movements, fair medical care, anti-racism education, and any other demands run counter to the high profits the elites collect. That's all they care about, which is why we should hit them where it hurts - the money! If you stop the corruption, everything else will fall into place.


Why?


Fear is profitable. Hatred is profitable. Ignorance is profitable. And yes.. confusion is profitable. Stress = docile shoppers. You can bet your ass they are keep us stressed through the media. And this negativity holds down EVERYTHING progressive. It is about control.

 The elite love to keep the people in a state of busyness and fear running about trying to solve thousands of issues. They LAUGH while we argue amongst each other as separate political parties. They love watching Occupy LA tear itself into pieces by demanding a million things. They FEAR that we will realize that it is just about the money, which is why there's basically a media blackout. Money is about control. We destroy their money racket, and we will take back control.
.
Trust me, get money out of politics and the rest will follow. 
Thank you,
David


PS. When we educate ourselves and the public, we need to focus on ONLY the MOST damaging corruptions.

1. Federal Reserve
2. Lobbying/Campaign Funding by Corporations/Self-Interest groups like AIPAC.
3. Relationship between high debt and elite profits - how politics has amended laws to allow it (highly incriminating)

Demand: I vote we set up a system of accountability and persecution for all past and future crimes of this nature. This system must be grassroots owned. Oh yeah, and with persecution comes payout rewards/forgiveness of debts for damages incurred on the people.

We are the Revolution!

 

Oh, something also must be

Submitted by OccupyLA on

Oh, something also must be done in regards to "speculators" in the stock market, who deliberately drive the prices of commodities in the market! They simply speculate, and by doing so, you pay more on these goods. They should not be allowed to have this much power over a nation.

Please understand the problem of the "speculators"

Submitted by jdubb on

This is a distraction that the govt would love you to believe in.  These are not just "speculators" that are driving the price up, these are ordinary investors who just want to preserve their wealth and have no interest in "speculation". The Federal Reserve is debasing the currency when they print money and hand it to bankers.  This dilution of the dollar makes it impossible to preserve your wealth by holding USD because it causes inflation.  So what do people do?  Naturally they move out of US dollars and into anything else that might preserve their value. The Federal Reserve, by printing more and more money, is FORCING people to invest in speculative assets, which drives their prices up in the market, and benefits the major financial institutions who rely on rising asset prices for their absurd fees.  The problem is NOT the speculutars... the problem is the Federal Reserve.  The SYMPTOM is that the Fed's money printing forces EVERYONE to become speculators - they want it this way, they want the rising commodities prices, the only way to stop it is to stop the Fed.

Yes, the fed is apart fo the

Submitted by OccupyLA on

Yes, the fed is apart fo the problem (i did mention), but speculators still drive up prices. this is legitimate. Why do you belive the egyptians rose up? Commodoties hit a record high, people could no longer afford proper food. That said, like i mentioned the Fed does need reform, as we likely wont be able to get rid of it right away. But so does the market in various ways. 

 Also, i would like to add that people are keeping their money in USD. Lots of europeans keep their money in USD, because our money currently has more value and stability, regardless of the current financial state. I'm not sure if you're aware of that. That's why even Ghadafi had all his accounts in America etc to give an idea.

So true - the USD is strong because...

Submitted by nobody on

Everyone's going chicken little about the dollar, but with every tightening of the credit belt, fears of recession drive investors to the dollar.  At this point, they are buying US debt at rates below inflation - meaning that they are guaranteed to lose money on their investments in USDs... but they're OK with that.  It beats risking a 10% or greater loss on the NYSE or NASDAQ.

The dollar has strength because the Fed is separate from the Congress.  It has strength because the US is so powerful, and we are still very wealthy compared to other countries.  But it's not all roses - we have some big problems that are destabilizing the dollar....

And that elephant in the room is healthcare costs, which seem to rise over 20% per year, and amounts to a huge pay cut for Americans across the board.

False inflation

Submitted by nobody on

Much of the inflation we're experiencing is due to increased speculation in commodities and fuel. That's why food costs are up a lot.

A lot of other prices are deflating. Housing, for example, is deflating.  Anything that relies on credit is deflating.

QE and QE2 increased the money supply, but the idea is that as the loans are paid back, the money is pulled out of the money supply. 

The value of the dollar has not declined.  It's appreciated in value agains tthe euro and yen.

IAmDerick's picture

What must be addressed

Submitted by IAmDerick on

 

I hope this is the right place on the forum to post this.  And this is just what's been on my mind, not set in stone.  Please let me know if any of this is innaccurate, missing something or even completely off the rails.  I have some vague ideas on how to approach these problems, but it is a very complex and monumental task ahead of us.

 

Oppression and inequality must be addressed.  Somehow women are still paid less than men.  Brown people are dispropotionately unemployed and incarcerated.  How can we still be struggling with this issue 45 years after the civil rights movement?

 

The Education of our children has been undermined by ignorance, lobbying and marketing.  This must be addressed.  Our future may be bumpy and our progeny must be able to solve problems we probably don't even know about.  If we don't wish to end up as the dinosaurs we need to learn capabilies we don't have right now.  Our population may grow to 12 billion by 2050 and that's going to be a hell of a problem.  Our ecosystem is struggling as it is with the 6 or 7 billion here today.  We have to think fast and slow population growth as quickly as possible.  Education and the empowerment of women has shown to be most effective in population control.

 

Unemployment and under education leads to dismissal by our society.  This dismissal leads to meth abuse, neo-nazis, street gangs, etc.  We cannot afford to continue abandoning people and letting them fall into counterproductive crowds.  The television is also not helping.  The TV sets the norms for dignity.  According to the television, to live a life of dignity you need a car, a large TV, an expensive game system, a nice car, a smartphone, expensive clothes, fit a sitcom stereotype, take your kids to some deserted beach on credit, buy expensive jewlery to show love, and be able to wow a crowd at the drop of a hat.  So-called reality TV is telling our children that real people act like whiney little brats.  It's telling them to be the selfish individual ideal of the old, failed economic system.  Exhibiting insatiable greed is not how people act in a functioning society and leads people down a path of depression and desperation.  It's little wonder how so many of our children are neurotic and clueless when they are trying to live life according to fiction.

 

Climatological Instability must be addressed.  It is clear the United States government as it stands has no interest in helping out with this problem and is dismissive to even their own studies and conclusions.  The United States is seriously considering approving drilling for oil in Wild Life Refuges and working with Canada to increase tar sands oil extraction.  Projects such as these are the exact opposite of what we need.  The tar sands project is probably the least efficient means of gathering carbon chains and lays waste thousands of acres of forest.  The very forests that are best at extracting carbon from the atmosphere.  The more carbon we mine, the cheaper it becomes.  The longer we keep fossil fuels cheap, the longer we delay our shift into a sustainable society.  Leave the carbon that is in the ground where it is.  There is already too much in the atmosphere and if we continue to release carbon dioxide as we are, peat moss trapped in ice is likely to melt releasing untold amounts of methane and could cause worse droughts and floods than those we have seen this year.  An ice age is quite possible and a lot of people will die if that happens.  It is our food supply on the line.  This is economic suicide.  To be a species blessed enough to predict this catastrophie and failing to prevent it will be the greatest historical tragedy ever.  A green revolution could be the largest public works project in the world, reinvigorating our world economy.  This will be very good for the long term economy and it is probably the greatest international cooperation opportunity we have ever seen.

 

Population growth is a problem.  Reducing infant mortality to near zero has shown to be the best way of slowing population growth.  We must face the fact that we are animals and we will do whatever it takes to raise children that survive to have children.  It is what all of our ancestors have done and it is what most people are driven to do.  We must ensure everyone can feed and educate their children for only then will population growth slow to sustainable levels.  If we fail to do this war will persist as people continue to go hungry.

 

Guantanamo Bay Prision must be shut down.  The use of torture and imprisionment without charge goes against everything we stand for.  To ignore this is to delegitimitize all we claim to be and represent.

 

Terrorism will not go away so long as we are at war.  The march of technology will make violent acts of terror easier and soon we will find we are using all of our resources trying to defend against a growing population of desperate people.  This is a war that cannot be won by violence.  As I understand it, the tribal people of Afghanistan and other places where young men are turned into terrorists don't see what we see on the news.  They see two competing ideologies.  One they see as foreigners of a different religion bombing them and raiding their neighbors' houses, the other is a group of crazy super-fundamentalists that are of the same religion and seen as an underdog.  This confusion, fear and desperation caused by droughts and oppression makes the youth of the area succeptable to crazy "religious" ideas like blowing youself in a crowded area will deliver you unto 72 Virgins.  Once again the solution is education and empowerment of the many, especially women.

 

Videos and programs that have influenced this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sP291B7SCw  - Sir David Attenborough on over population

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg  - Hans Rosling on global population growth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlyorcJ28UA  - Rachel Pike: The science behind a climate headline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meWY0W40OA  - Rob Hopkins: Transition to a world without oil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaF-fq2Zn7I  - Bill Gates on energy: Innovating to zero!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc  - Dan Pink - The surprising truth about what motivates us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U  - Sir Ken Robinson - Changing Education Paradigms

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/  -  Frontline investigative journalism.

 

 

 

SWARMtheBANKS's picture

Precious resources are being consumed

Submitted by SWARMtheBANKS on

because bankers have put so many on the never ending wheel of debt.  Making it more reasonable to pay off our own debts can begin to create more free time to do more productive things with out lives.

Bankers control us by one simple rule, the restructuring of any debt requires a default first.  The Default is then used to force people into far worse economic conditions.  It can even affect one's ability to get a job.

Change the rules to Restructuring a debt IS NOT a default, and you change the world, for the better.

www.occupynews.net, www.swarmthebanks.com, www.bankprotests.com, www.parallelforeclosure.com, www.unfairforeclosures.com, www.daily-protest.com, www.bloggersagainstchasebank.com www.robotsagainstchase.com, www.credit-protector.com

I have less problem with the

Submitted by nobody on

I have less problem with the bank bailout than I do with the subsequent austerity.

The alternative to a bailout was a string of bank failures, and a severe credit crunch that would probably throw us into a depression.  The details of the bailout were wrong - they should have taken over and broken up the banks, and tried to contain the damage directly by cramming down mortgages.*  But there could be a second chance for banking reform if the economy crashes, or BofA goes under.

My gripe is austerity.  We're paying for their bailouts and the corporate "recovery" with our unemployment, cuts to services, and so forth.

If the banks can get mega-loans to keep them solvent and the system largely intact, why can't people get "loans" of government money to survive?  By loan, I mean running budget deficits.  The people will pay back this debt with taxes.  We've done it before, and we'll do it again.

 

* There are other reasons I don't resent the bailout, like the fact that the Left has been weak, and a collapse of capitalism could have plunged us into a more fascist direction.

 

daniil's picture

Direct Action vs. Demands

Submitted by daniil on

We have an opportunity to organize globally that we've never had before.  Rather than demanding things of our broken governments, we have the opportunity to govern and provide for ourselves and each other.  This will manifest through direct action rather than political activism; once the real movement has begun, the governments will need to comply or face irrelevance.

As far as political activism goes, we need to DEMAND the end of psychotic spending and waste: war, prison, centralization of control, oil and GMO subsidies.  The governments of the world need to stop causing problems before we can even begin to ask them to create positive solutions.

As far as positive solutions are concerned, we need to ACT NOW.

For example, the internet shouldn't be a top-down administered privilege.  We have the technology (TV dishes, 802.11 routers, BATMAN) to easily create global, non-corporate, mesh wireless internet that would be impossible to shut off.  The nodes would be VERY cheap to build could unicast reliably up to 300 km in one direction (line of sight).  As far as environmental concerns, 2.4ghz (wifi) is much less destructive than microwave (cdma) band.  The fiber networks can still be utilized via TCP/IP routing but they would not be critical for connectivity.  This will ONLY come about via a grassroots movement of geeks and freaks, so spread the idea!

Yet another example is human ecology (food, water, shelter, energy, oxygen). which is the same as economics.  There is only one "means of production" and that is Planet Earth.  We need to break the paradigm that the human race is destructive by nature.  This isn't true; regenerative design of human settlements is not only possible but is being practiced all over the world by intentional communities.  We need to break the paradigm that we can "own" any part of the thing that sustains our life.

For another example, we need to turn the profit-driven medical industry on its head.  We should boycott hospitals and we should all learn everything we can about alternative healing and diagnoses.  Our inherent trust of profit-driven, corporate-trained medical professionals and surgeons is laughable.  We should all start on the path to become curanderos, healers, and bonesetters.

This movement has political clout, but the real strength is cultural, conceptual, and organizational.  We are in a position to inspire widespread grassroots change all over the world.  We are more than a protest movement.  We are the architects of a new civilization built from the wreckage of the last one.

Cheap?

Submitted by nobody on

I am all for a mesh network, but we need to wean ourselves away from cheap technology.  It's only cheap because the people who operate the factories and machines to make these products are impoverished.  If they earned $13 an hour instead of $1.30 an hour, the cheap $100 router would cost $1000.  Our gadgetry is covered in the blood of workers who have suffered to make the hardware.

tykneedanser's picture

Demands - How do you eat an elephant?

Submitted by tykneedanser on

We need to pull some really smart (educated teacher types) together to start writing up, realistic and viable plans to submit with our demands. I am sure there are a few econ or political science professors that have great ideas in their heads who justM need the forum to bring them to fruition. I voted on the "official demands" for Occupy Wall Street prior to being told that they were not legitimate but I must say they had some good ideas.


Many of these demands will be multi faceted and seriously complicated. Lets take war for example. Do we want to end all wars, some wars, which war? Do we do this immediately? Can we? Who do we put the pressure on to make this happen? These are questions I cant answer and I venture to guess many cant. There are however people who can. Who in our camp knows?


For every demand there are a ton of questions that have to be addressed. In order for us to be taken seriously we need to prove our competence by not just yelling for change but organizing the facilitation of change! Mind you, I believe we have time to do this. Our lack of demands this far has given this movement time to generate more and more interest. I think it is working out perfectly because its time has come.


Its a lot to do but we have a lot of people to do it. Its like eating an elephant.....exactly how does one eat an elephant....one bite at a time!! No offense to the vegans out there :) 


 

Tiffany Tabares

Socialism should have no business in the United States!

Submitted by tiffanyme001 on

I support the Constitution and everything it represents. I believe in social benefits, but not socialism--it is an ISM that we are fighting. Cuba is socialist and we see how far that has gotten them. Even Castro himself said that socialism is the downfall of his country. There is too many people out of work and too little reason for them to work as a result of socialism. We should be fighting for the constitution because under its law we have our rights of freedom--the very rights corporations have lobbied to take away from us--and successfully done so by bribing our public officials. Our United States Constitution is specific in that the FED is, indeed, illegal. Protections for businesses are illegal. We started off with a free market allowing everyone to own businesses and compete fairly. Through laws enacted by the rich, we have found that small businesses are squeezed out of the free market making competition null from lack of extravagant competing funds.

We need to find the specific laws we wish to repeal like the unpatriotic Patriot Act, and the unfair Food Safety Act put into place for businesses to spy and weed out competition. The TSA feeling up our citizens at airports and sporting events with plans to occupy many more venues in the near future should be STOPPED! Wars that we have no business in From Iraq to Libya should be STOPPED! Since Obama has been in office more illegal wars have been waged than ever before!

Tyranny is running rampant in this administration than ever before. Admitted bribes to pass the illegal Obama Care and the wavers given to big corporations, but not to small businesses, or people. There have been bribes to senators admitted for votes in specific bills, and HLS marking average people like you and me terrorists. I can name so many other violations, but to save space I will leave it up to you all to argue my stance, but beware, make a good case!

Businesses should not be "people" as they are not a single entity. They should not be allowed to lobby countless amounts of dollars to pass laws that are not for the people. People should be put first, not profits. Even if bankruptcy is to follow the companies mistake, they should pay for their mistakes. No company should have immunity from liability. Companies should be held accountable for all their actions, or as a result of their actions large, small, and miniscule. People before profits. Any illegal action should be fully investigated and the person responsible that knowingly committed a crime should be jailed for the act on the person/people.

Third party, unfunded by the corporations, reports and studies should be taken into account before any paid for study or report. We should be protected by this measure first and foremost.

Any government funded regulatory entity shall put the people before any business. The studies submitted shall be reviewed and credited by these regulatory departments. As we see the negative effects we shall review the additional supporting evidence and if the evidence is deemed creditable the product shall be recalled without prejudice. All federal departments take an oath of "for the people by the people" and to the U.S. Constitution.

There shall be term limits on all federal and state seats (including justice)of no more than 12 years. Public servitude shall be just and fair to the people first! No more career politicians. Additionally any unfair, or unjust actions shall allow any citizen of the United States to take out a grievance, or start a impeachment with no fewer than 10,000 signatures.

We shall seize all materials used in printing the United States dollar and deem the Federal Reserve to no longer have a grip of any kind on our monetary system.

All enacted laws against our United States Constitution shall be null and void.

If you're allied in this

Submitted by nobody on

If you're allied in this movement - you should know that there are a lot of people who are socialists.  Are you going to deny them the right to their ideas?  They like Cuba and its medical system.  I'm not a socialist per-se, but I am impressed by their social welfare system.  They are a poor country, something like Honduras or Haiti, but with communism, they mitigate some of the horror of poverty.

Cuba isn't a socialist

Submitted by OCdave on

Cuba isn't a socialist country to begin with. It is a country with a totalitarian-style government that maintains control under the guise of "soclialism." You might recall that Stalin initially sold the Russian people on the idea of communism by telling them that "socialism" under totalitarian rule was merely a transitional period.


In fact, socialism has never really existed. True socialism is merely an odd blend of philosophical ideals and economic dogma. The US created the whole " socialism vs capitalism" mantra to give Americans something to focus on.


That being said, saying that Russia and Cuba failed because of socialism is a major demonstration of economic ignorance. I'm sorry to put it that way, but it's true. Those two countries failed not because of socialism but because of a myriad of other factors such as absolute control over business by government -- control which inhibited growth and competition. Another major reason is the lack of open trade that existed between western countries and communist block countries.


One thing to consider is that China is by your definition a "socialist" country and yet it is doing very well in comparison to "socialist" cuba. This is because China has given its business sector some breathing room, not because China has stepped away from socialism.


I believe in the power of free markets, free enterprise, and freedom from wasteful taxation. However, when too much leverage is given to private enterprise, the result is something much, much worse than what you might see in your typical "socialist" country. 

Socialism has many forms

Submitted by david on

I agree socialism has gotten a really bad undeserved reputation namely from the totalitarian dictators that have used it.


But now, there are many forms. Some use computers to fairly distribute resources, some pay according to work, some pay according to needs, some are union directed, some are state directed. And they all have different results. Also you have to consider under what conditions is socialism employed. If we all switch to clean sustainable energies, we could have way more than we need in resources and way more than enough to go around.


 I think hybrid models of socialism and capitalism are a necessary for a transition into Utopia. In fact, to a degree, we already are employing hybrid models. Arent welfare and medicare forms of socialism? Certainly no one would argue to get rid of them completely.


My main point is that there is no reason to be AGAINST socialism completely. It's just another tool we could use to be part of the machine. And certainly, let's not be against any socialists we may have amongst us.

We are the Revolution!

 

End the Federal Reserve

Submitted by ubr2o on

End the Federal Reserve

 Adopt single payer national health insurance 

Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget

Build renewable energy infrastructure and end nuclear power

Prosecute corporate crime and end corporate welfare 

Prosecute war crimes

Prosecute political fraud/crime

Adopt a securities transaction/speculation tax 

Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law 

Repeal "Citizens United"

End the war economy and the wars

End corporate personhood (End corporations ?, at least as we know them)

End ballot access obstructionism 

Remove money from politics, and require legitimate debates

Some of these come direct from Ralph Nader's 08 campaign page (still up: http://www.votenader.org/issues/ ).  Why not use this and/or other well articulated "demands" as a starter and then debate in groups?  There is no way to make this a single-issue movement, but we might put five or ten primary demands on "page one" and have the others ready on "page two" (Yes, you are damn right we will turn the page and address all important issues).  Start spreadsheets and discuss the list(s) in groups as people shuffle their preferred issues to the top.   ??

ONE DEMAND: RESTORE OUR DEMOCRACY BY ENDING THE CORPORATOCRACY

Submitted by danielbrummel on

Does anyone not understand the basic message, the one basic demand of this protest???

"THE BASIC MESSAGE OF THIS PROTEST IS that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power—in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions—is destroying financial security for everyone else." (Glenn Greenwald)

The corporate monster is an extremely difficult one to address, and we must keep our energy focused in solidarity.  If this movement is to be successful, it must stick to its guns on this ONE UMBRELLA DEMAND: RESTORE OUR DEMOCRACY BY ENDING THE CORPORATOCRACY.  We must, at all costs, remain in complete solidarity behind this one basic and general demand, and not veer into discussion of other demands that do not fall under this umbrella.  If corporate money were taken out of American politics, and the American government were to become what it perhaps once was and what it has always aspired to be -- a participatory, truly representative democracy -- the public would have a renewed opportunity to express themselves through legislature and public policy, and demands of various stripes would be heard and met.  But at this crucial turning point in this particular movement, OTHER DEMANDS, WHILE OF COURSE VERY VALID, WILL ONLY UNDERMINE OUR STRENGTH because, by definition, they do not have the support of the 99% who are being financially victimized by the 1%.  They are other issues that could begin to be solved once the MONEY IS OUT OF POLITICS.  This is the one issue we can and should ALL get behind.  In order to continue gaining momentum and growing in numbers, this must remain our one overarching demand.

I move that Occupy Los Angeles adopts and releases the following demand declaration, or something similar, as soon as possible:

***

"DECLARATION OF THE DEMAND: Our one basic demand is an immediate end to the corporate rule over our representative democracy. We will take all patient and deliberate actions necessary to ensure that our one demand is met as soon as possible.  We recognize our demand is a general one; it must be so, because it is in response to a endemic problem with multifarious faces.  Rest assured that in the coming days, weeks, and years it will be followed by more specific demands with more focused targets.  We will vigilantly continue our Occupation of Los Angeles until the crux of our one basic demand is met.  We will know that day has come by the shared happiness we will experience as one people, when equal access to resources and the overall equality of wealth have manifested through the demise of the corporate monster."

***

Then, as a demands committee, a general assembly, an occupation of L.A.'s City Hall, and a national movement of occupations, we can move on to discussing more specific actions and demands that help achieve the basic demand.

I write these comments after attending three meetings of the Demands Committee, listening carefully to everyone's inidividual ideas about the movement's demands, and doing more research and coming to understand the nature of what is happening at City Hall in Los Angeles now as it relates to what has happened and continues to happen on Wall Street. Over the last 48 hours in protest mode, my concerns about the demands of "Occupy Los Angeles" and "Occupy Together" in general have grown and changed. We must retain our solidarity on the umbrella demand of the movement so that we can begin to work on strategies to begin to win small battles towards achieving that basic demand.  For those who do not understand how the corporatocracy is stealing our money and ruining our lives, education and outreach programs should be set up to show how all problems stem from the larger economic issue of corporate rule."

Please discuss and revise as necessary!!!

Daniel Brummel

¡¡¡ EL PUEBLO UNIDO JAMÁS SERÁ VENCIDO !!!

FIRST THEY IGNORE US, THEN THEY LAUGH AT US, THEN THEY FIGHT US, THEN WE WIN

I agree with you--mostly

Submitted by Lee on

I agree that there needs to be a slogan or focus, and End the Corporatocracy seems like a good one to me. Government by the people, of the people, for the people, not by of for Wall Street seems like another one. But within that, it would be great if we could agree on at least a few of the specifics of what that means, without saying it ends there. Otherwise, politicians will define it the way they want to, which will not be what we mean or want. Also, I think that without having a laundry list of related specific demands that the whole movement adopts formally, we should nevertheless accept that subgroups within the broad movement will go out and protest about specific issues related to our broad slogan-- eg against banks repossessing houses instead of giving homeowners a chance, against specific corporate welfare cases like funding of military contractors, agaisnt specific tax breaks for the wealthiest etc. I think we should embrace that diversity along with the overlying  unity. At least, i think that's how to build a whole movement, not just an organization, say.

What do you think of that idea?

 

Leone

I think it is a mistake to

Submitted by eric1 on

I think it is a mistake to have a myriad of issues. It will alienate a lot of folks who may or may not agree with some of them. Stick to a few core issues. Remember, the chief enemy are the financial "elites" who control the wealth.

Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.

Evil people rule when good people do nothing.

 

 

Not with Consensus

Submitted by nobody on

I don't agree - the trick is to create a generally agreeable short list of things - but then have a larger understanding of solidarity between groups that may not really agree on things.  This can be done via a large-scale consensus decision making process. Over time, the things we have in common, and the things we don't agree on, will become more obvious.

The things we don't agree on - we agree to support each other regardless.

For example, I am allies with someone into 9/11.  I'm not into that.  I kind of dislike it.  But there's enough agreement on other things that we can have a long-term solidarity.  I disagree with the Paulites on many things.  Likewise, I think Zeitgeist - well I won't say what I think - but I can ally with their spirit and can feel their rage and hope.

But for now, we can all get along to protest the plutocrats - just don't expect me to agree with things you all think are obvious.  I read the same stuff - and I just think you're wrong.

One demand, Three Targeted Areas of Reform:

Submitted by Fallout2man on

So to revise some of the things I've said earlier. We need to work backwards. The central issue here is corruption and collusion of power that has been made possible by money's influence on our government and legal system. We hate corruption, Wall St. greed, we hate how the top 1% gets multi-million dollar bonuses while many Americans get to choose whether they eat or pay their mortgage that month.

We hate it because the only reason this unfair system exists is because the 1% have slowly manipulated the source of money, and therefore power in society away from the people and towards themselves.

I think that conservative, liberal, independent or anything else we can all agree on this simple thing: All Americans should receive fair, just and equal treatment under the eyes of the law. And as such we must understand that if money and the collusion of power it enables is the problem that we must simply do what we have always done, ensure justice is blind, even to money.

1: We must remove Money's influence on politics (Via elections reform, or lobbying reform)

2: We must remove Money's influence on the legal system (Public defenders for all maybe? Tort reform on damages that can be brought against a single individual or family by a larger entity. The civil court system right now is the playground of big business to scare small business and famlies into submission with patent and copyright law that lets them use the threat of generational debt incurred via ridiculously high damage awards to secure control.)

3: We must remove Money's influence on the Media (This is the hardest thing we have to do, and mark my words, it MUST BE DONE. We must NEVER AGAIN be made to fight ourselves because of the media. We need to get a lot of really smart people together and discuss possible regulations for the news, possibly reinstituting the fairness doctrine and other reforms to prevent media lies, half-truths, etc.)

 

We must understand that we as a people, are a great nation of many great ideas. And conservative, liberal, independent, or anything else we all are united in our belief it is our duty to ensure government does its best to secure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all of its citizens. While we may disagree on how to do this, we can do all of the above in a way that is not beholden to any one ideology. We're all about getting money and it's dirty influence OUT of our public institutions. And yes, while in effect it is a collection of private institutions that does include the media. While the media itself is not government and in fact a private entity. The sad fact is that we would never have gotten this far if the media were not at the least inherently complicit in facilitating these acts.

Regardless of any explicit malfeasance on the part of the owners, the media has colluded and the media has misrepresented. It has lied both small and large, and this is an explicit problem that simply must be addressed. We must address in a permenant way the power of the owner of any news making organization to shape the public discourse.

Indeed it is without fair and true information that democracy finds itself short-circuited. We MUST regulate the truth in news somehow, work against spin and misleading information. This is not an easy task, and it is for this exact reason that it must be done and must be done now. For we are at a once-in-a-generation crossroads to effect major change. Hard decisions are only made during times like these, so we must not shirk our responsibility to those who not only are here today but those who will come in future generations. We must ensure the media can't make enemies of us anymore. I do not know with any certainty how we can do this just yet, but it must be done, and it must be done now, or we may never have a chance to do it again until the next time history repeats such a tragedy.

Demands...

Submitted by Chill on

Thank you everyone for doing this, I had lost hope for my American peers.  Now i feel that a positive future is possible.  I attended the Day 1 GA and was impressed with the willingness to unite and the respect that such a large gathering had exhibited.  My personal political persuasions tend to be very left and my grandfathers are right leaning, my point lies in the fact that we have the same BASIC philosophy... that the essential human needs of citizens are not only deserved but should be guaranteed.  The demands of the 99% need to resonate with the 99%, the traditional anarchist model (preferred by myself) will not be the will of the 99%.  Thank you all for occupying city hall! Unfortunately I have many obligations keeping me from being there 24/7... The only thing I ask as this evolves is that we don't start making "demands"... we demand to have a voice, we demand to be heard, we demand true representative democracy (w/o international financial crime syndicates hands all over it) and we demand essential human needs be met... these are things that even tea party members would agree with...because they are part of the 99% (only brainwashed! This movement needs to be the detergent).  Please remember that we truly are the 99% and we can keep our differences for future discussion.  Again I Thank you all, 

  Peace, Love and Positivity

CHill

also, we need to make this a Bi-Lingual Movement as many of our fellow 99% are first language Spanish! 

 

"we need to be the change we wish to see in the world"

GlynAHolton's picture

Lessons from Women's Suffrage Movement

Submitted by GlynAHolton on

I would be concerned about advocating socialism, but the demonstrations are approaching a crossroads. What are they going to stand for? You have to move beyond mere grievances. I just posted to the USPX blog lessons from the Women's Suffrage Movement. Here is the crux:

 

A ... model for today’s demonstrations is the Women’s Suffrage Movement launched at Seneca Falls in 1848. Approximately 300 people gathered for that first meeting. Only one survived seven decades to see the day women would actually vote in national elections ...

A lesson from Seneca Falls is the transformation that occurs when a movement defines itself. The purpose of the 1848 meeting was to present for debate and a vote a "Declaration of Sentiments" and an accompanying list of resolutions. The most controversial resolution was the one that women have the right to vote. Lucretia Mott argued against it. Frederick Douglass spoke for it. The resolution passed. But in the days following the meeting, a number of participants asked if they could scratch their names from the list of signatories. They were too embarrassed by the controversy the meeting had caused.

The Declaration of Sentiments and resolutions passed at the Seneca Falls meeting defined the Women’s Suffrage Movement. Other than a meandering list of grievances against corporations, Occupy has produced nothing similar−no principles, resolutions, goals or demands. You can understand the hesitancy. When they do that, it will define the movement. Like signatories scratching out their names, some people will look at those principles or demands and say “this isn’t for me.”

No movement can claim to represent 99% of the population for long. This isn’t bad. It is part of the growth trajectory of any successful movement.

With Occupy approaching a crossroads, which route will the movement take? I see four possibilities:

1. Hesitancy and internal divisions prevail. The movement fails to endorse clear principles and looses momentum.

2. Occupy embraces a broad liberal agenda, positioning itself as a sort of Democrats’ answer to the Tea Party.

3. The movement sticks to its initial financial/economic agenda but embraces the notion that capitalism is the problem. Occupy turns towards socialism.

4. The movement sticks to its initial financial/economic agenda but accepts that the problem is broken capitalism and not capitalism itself. They advocate for fundamental repairs to American capitalism.

Given our commitment to capitalism, and the fact that we are non-partisan, the USPX cannot endorse the Occupy demonstrations unless and until they take the last of the above four courses.

You can read the entire post at:

http://proxyexchange.org/2011/10/occupy-movement-lessons-from-womens-suf...

 

Glyn A. Holton

Executive Director

United States Proxy Exchange

A list of demands is

Submitted by seanlambert on

A list of demands is unnecessary. There is an inherent contradiction in seeking solutions from the very source we've deemed the cause of our plight.  All true reform lies within ourselves, not Wall St., not the government. How can 1 man oppress 99, unless the 99 men allow it?  We've oppressed ourselves.  I mean that in the most earnest and sincere way possible.  While I applaud all attempts to protest Wall St, it does not address the heart of the matter and therefore it's success could be limited.  The real issue is that the 99% allow the 1% to do this.  Government will not fix this, so demands toward them are misguided.  We must do it ourselves.

The purpose of the whole movement should be simply to change public opinion on as large of a scale as possible.  Right now, there is still the belief that Wall St, that the government, controls us.  They do not, we control ourselves.  They can make laws and punish us, but the more we expose the wrongdoing of a country oppressing its own citizens, the more public opinion will shift.  The more public opinion shifts, you will begin to see officers who refuse to arrest protesters and in fact join them.  The more officers awaken to their concious, the less there will be to take their mount.  In time, no one would and the whole conception of power would begin to reshape.  The use of civil disobedience is a means to achieve this, as long as it knows no evil.  The stockbroker and the police officer, we must aim to reform and awaken his and her conscious, nothing more.  As long as pure and total non-violence is maintained on the part of the people, the movement has no limit.  I would suggest going a step further and being kind to them, offering them food and water and treating them as what they are; our brothers and sisters.

You will need no demands because this would, in time, shake government to its foundations.  Police officers, by nature, do not want to harm us.  They are us, merely under the illusion they must follow the orders barked down upon them, even when it conflicts with their conscious to do so.  We must face sacrifice and long-term struggle to enlighten them and awaken their conscious.

I suggest moving away from the city halls and the banks and toward the factories and the ghettos.  These too are our brothers and sisters and the ones who need to hear about this movement most.  The bankers and the stockbrokers could care less (for now), the government is clearly hoping we wither and fade with arrests and mace.  Their time will come for a peaceful awakening.  For now, our focus should be the hearts and minds of the working men and women, the poor, the criminals, the ones whose lives of crime the whole manor of extreme greed and corruption by the rich and the lawmakers has brought about.  This needn't be the middle class against the upper class, it should be the people awakening their consciouses toward a new conception of society for all of us alike.  This begins by reaching out to those at the very bottom and hearing and sharing their struggles, not by shouting as loud as you can at those at the top.

Mainstream media is unnecessary.  Phones, social media, e-mail, etc render it obsolete.  Likewise carrying your message to the working men and women, to the poor, to the prostitutes, the thieves, the housewives, the neighbors, the churches, will begin a mass public shift of opinion, which is a thousandfold more powerful than a mere list of demands.  You don't always need to know every solution and in fact we cannot know but one step at a time.  Sometimes just spreading the word that there's a problem is, itself, the solution.  My deepest love and prayers to you all.

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