What's the point?

Submitted by Supersean on

Forums: 

I've added a few posts over the last few days. I've been downtown watching and listening.The time has come for me to ask this basic question.

Personally, I think the demonstrations can be very effective. I'd like to see public financing of campaigns and specific legislation limiting the amount of money spent on lobbying. I'm all for ending the practice of buying the government.

What effect do you think these demonstrations can have? What would you like to see happen? 

I'm not looking for, 'change the system, man'. I was thinking about the civil rights movement in the '60s, the grandaddy of all protest movements in America, and what it accomplished. It changed America for sure. But it didn't end racism. In the end I surmised, it was the legislation enacted that is the lasting effect.

What do you want to happen as a result of these demonstrations?

i fear if we dont demonstrate

Submitted by patnavaja on

i fear if we dont demonstrate then even more radical groups will birth from this movement. off the top of my mind i see tha blank panthers of the 70s who came from the demonstrations of the 60s.. right off the bat i fear mayeb neo nazism from this movement, from reading from many whom believe the jewish are to blame for all this. demonstrate and organize, but no one leader would be my say. 

AM3R1CA_s2n

Actually, the BPP started

Submitted by nobody on

Actually, the BPP started before the later anti-war protests.  They were early, not late, and influenced the more moderate groups to form, particularly the Third World Strikes at universities in the SF Bay Area that formed in the early 70s.

 

No prob.  The earliest anti

Submitted by nobody on

No prob.  The earliest anti-war stuff happened in 63.  Wikipedia says BPP started in 66.    By 66 there was a signficant opposition to the war on the left.  Wikipedia says in 65, 30,000 people showeed up to protest war with Coretta Scott King in DC.  So that's a bit larger than Occupy, but not by much, and this was after two years.

In 69 demostrations against it were large, an estimate half million.  (That's the estimated count of the 2006 immigration rally in LA, to give you an idea.)

The BPP was not about the anti-war movement, though they opposed the war.  It was an outgrowth of the Civil Rights movement, and their era was basically 66 to 74.   They grew fast, developing hundreds of leaders and thousands of members, but fell apart due to COINTELPRO, attacks from local police, and internal strife.  Here's a list of their demands:

1) "Freedom; the power to determine the destiny of the Black and oppressed communities.

 

2) Full Employment; give every person employment or guaranteed income.

 

3) End to robbery of Black communities; the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules as promised to ex-slaves during the reconstruction period following the emancipation of slavery.

 

4) Decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings; the land should be made into cooperatives so that the people can build.

 

5) Education for the people; that teaches the true history of Blacks and their role in present day society.

 

6) Free health care; health facilities which will develop preventive medical programs.

 

7) End to police brutality and murder of Black people and other people of color and    oppressed people.

 

8) End to all wars of aggression; the various conflicts which exist stem directly from the United States ruling circle.

 

9) Freedom for all political prisoners; trials by juries that represent our peers.

 

10) Land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and community control of modern industry."

Also, they created a number of "survival programs" or community self-help projects, including:

* breakfast for children

* clothing program

* health and dental care programs

* prisoner and family support

* clothing factory

* sickle cell anemia testing

* free ambulance service

* elementary schools

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/BPP-Serving-The-People1998.htm

well, how's that gonna occur?

Submitted by Supersean on

well, how's that gonna occur? the number of demonstrators in NYC will dwindle as it gets colder, and once the demonstration in NYC is no longer news all the rest are no longer news. How long is Occupy LA gonna be out there, neatly tucked away in the back of City Hall where no one can see it I might add, after the news vans stop coming?

Mahayana's picture

I hope Occupy LA doesn't

Submitted by Mahayana on

I hope Occupy LA doesn't shrink away when the NY occupiers go away. If anything, it should give us greater incentive to hold ground and make our voices heard when our East coast folks cannot.

Is there not a street team of people sharing the word, recruiting and educating? This movement has so much potential to grow and needs to reach out and get more supporters. We should be in every major street of LA, Colleges, banks, malls, etc... handing out flyers and info on the movement. I would be more than happy to create a flyer or whatever and possibly even get some printed if someone can supply the verbage. (Ive seen the flyers available on this site, what I'm suggesting is something a little more informative on the movement)

Please let me know if I can help. I am about an hour and a half from LA and I can tell you that this movement is completely off the radar for most people here. I wouldn't doubt it if it was the same for most people in LA. Out of sight - out of mind. Lets take it to the streets.

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves - in their separate, and individual capacities. -Abe

i see the occupations itself

Submitted by patnavaja on

i see the occupations itself as the arms of the movement reaching out to gain support and knowledge but there still needs to be a brain behind all this, like i referred to before maybe if we were to act as one throughout the nation sychronized protest means media doesnt have to isolate one certain city at a time and disgrace it and we would be sporting a united front. in the eyes of the world the movement would change from what the media persist, i think no longer will they see us as a group of the "uneducated and unemployed" but as the average american. i dont think that answered your question though, sorry.

AM3R1CA_s2n

thanks for the response. no

Submitted by Supersean on

thanks for the response. no worries about not answering the question, but could you take a moment to answer it? What legislation would you enact if you could bring something to Congress? How would you synchronize the protests?

well first and foremost there

Submitted by patnavaja on

well first and foremost there has to be legistation to separate corporation and state, keeping them from government, isnt that the core of how all this started?.. as for synchronized protesting. right now my perspective is, we are demonstrating guerrilla protest,protesting here there with its people split. but my proposal is to attack one target at once with everybody at the same time.  not to bring down the establishment but to challenge it with a united front that would put off a strong message that we are one and we know what we are fighting for. it may not work but if its done, i think the message is all we need to up the level of confidence within the occupations and push us to the next level of whatever needs to happen for us to succeed. do u think its a good idea or a waste of occupation energy?

AM3R1CA_s2n

its a peice of legislation i

Submitted by patnavaja on

its a peice of legislation i think everyone wants, its the process of making it real thats the hard part in my eyes. cos if you noticed alot of people are against the occupation becoming a registered politcal party. and we arent really forcing anyone to do anything about it, just trying to shout loud enough to make honest politicians guilty and in good faith make the right choices before it gets out of control. i think the legislation will eventually get passed, though its not a matter of time, or when it will happen but how hard we push the media and politicians hopefully off the cliff of bliss and into our hands.

AM3R1CA_s2n

remember Prohibition

Submitted by Supersean on

After watching Ken Burns' documentary I was struck by how effective the Prohibition movement was. They got the NAACP and the KKK, the IWW and Henry Ford, Republican and Democrat behind the idea. Can we do the same? Is becoming a political party necessary to achieve our goal?

Nothing would please me more than to cast a vote in the first publicly funded campaign for national office in 2018.

please keep posting

Submitted by Supersean on

the OWS movement seems like it's at a critical moment. it feels like '---- or get off the pot' time. a lot of the other topics revolve around the question posed by this forum. yesterday was great, but it may be the last quickening of the masses we see for a while.

alhs06's picture

We need to take this guy supersean, seriously

Submitted by alhs06 on

We need to take this guy seriously.

I got into a small spat with supersean yesterday over something we both passionately agree on, which is this movement, it's frustration's & it's appearance to stall & sputter as the sands of time filter through the hourglass.

In my current research for a new thread I'm working on, I have discovered several post's by supersean in looking through 14 pages, so far, of forum threads in our General Discussion topics. While I do not agree with all his post's, I certainly agree with his concern's for "A sense of Urgency" to be applied to the goals & direction of our movement.

This thread was created 2 weeks ago, a short period in the life of the oppressed, but a long period in the oppressed revolution for change. Without a formal doctrine or decree by our movement & soon, frustration & strife will spread like an aggressive cancer and will be fed by those who we have united to stand against. If we don't build support for Solidarity of the 99% call to arms, through a formal proclamation, we won't be living on our knees, we are going to die there.

Supersean is not the only one I have known to provide thought provoking post's, there are a handful of other's as well. Their idea's, opinion's, frustration's & argument's must be studied & examined, rapidly now, as the answer's we seek to give our movement a collective voice are already before us in this FORUM, & they are much clearer than anything I've read or heard in the GA meetings & their minutes.

My picture reads

"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."

The 1% philosophy

Thanks man.

Submitted by Supersean on

Kudos to you for reviving some of these old threads! I definitely felt more comfortable sharing my opinions when the topics were more idea oriented back in the halcyon days of our nascent movement, you know, two weeks ago!

Folks can take me seriously if they want to, I'm just a guy. Just remember I don't take myself all that seriously, I'm trying to learn and inform my opinions like everybody else.

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